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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 9593043" data-attributes="member: 85555"><p>Another aspect of 4E was it turned off a lot of players who were into optimization. 3E did have issues with that that needed to brought under control, but I think a lot of us imagined that 4E was simply going to be about bringing that stuff into balance while still keeping things largely the same. I wasn't a huge optimizer myself but I ran the game for a number of players who were (the reality of the culture of play then was if you wanted to GM, you needed to learn to optimize). I recall a player getting the 4E books and basically saying &quot;what I lied about third edition was the builds, and this just doesn't excite me&quot;. The other crowd I lost were the people were turned off by the gamist language you describe. In the end it was half or more of all players in all the groups I was in who rejected 4E. We did talk one of the groups into some sessions, but I don't think we got past two months before they suggested going back to 3E</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 9593043, member: 85555"] Another aspect of 4E was it turned off a lot of players who were into optimization. 3E did have issues with that that needed to brought under control, but I think a lot of us imagined that 4E was simply going to be about bringing that stuff into balance while still keeping things largely the same. I wasn't a huge optimizer myself but I ran the game for a number of players who were (the reality of the culture of play then was if you wanted to GM, you needed to learn to optimize). I recall a player getting the 4E books and basically saying "what I lied about third edition was the builds, and this just doesn't excite me". The other crowd I lost were the people were turned off by the gamist language you describe. In the end it was half or more of all players in all the groups I was in who rejected 4E. We did talk one of the groups into some sessions, but I don't think we got past two months before they suggested going back to 3E [/QUOTE]

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