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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 9608481" data-attributes="member: 7026617">Well wanting a simulation is a perfectly legitimate desire; there's sharp limits as to how much of that you're going to get at best (and understanding that is key to understanding what is and isn't possible) but you also have to understand even during the days when the simulation-lean was strongest, the D&amp;D sphere was never where you were going to get that really; it had too much abstraction (and most of it was of convenience) for that to really work (and that was before you were deciding what you were trying to simulate; if you had two different people, one wanting to simulation sword-and-sorcery and one high fantasy, even though there's some overlap, they weren't going to really find the same game satisfactory if they were hard core about it).At the time it was how very far D&amp;D was off simulation that was partly what initially put me off, and had me in the RQ sphere for many years (not that RQ was exactly perfect about it, but its abstractions tended to operate at a much different level; the representative parts could usually be looked at hard and still tell you something about what was going on from moment to moment).&nbsp; But it was really only a piece of the problem as I realized over time, and even when I stopped caring as much about simulation there just wasn't much there for me to like.But you know what?&nbsp; What I care about has nothing to do with what deep fans of the game do (or should) care about.&nbsp; And until I internalized that it left my attitude toward it, well, pretty bad (not just in being negative, but in how and how often I felt the need to express that and with what fervor).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 9608481, member: 7026617"] Well [I]wanting[/I] a simulation is a perfectly legitimate desire; there's sharp limits as to how much of that you're going to get at best (and understanding that is key to understanding what is and isn't possible) but you also have to understand even during the days when the simulation-lean was strongest, the D&D sphere was never where you were going to get that really; it had too much abstraction (and most of it was of convenience) for that to really work (and that was before you were deciding what you were trying to simulate; if you had two different people, one wanting to simulation sword-and-sorcery and one high fantasy, even though there's some overlap, they weren't going to really find the same game satisfactory if they were hard core about it). At the time it was how very far D&D was off simulation that was partly what initially put me off, and had me in the RQ sphere for many years (not that RQ was exactly perfect about it, but its abstractions tended to operate at a much different level; the representative parts could usually be looked at hard and still tell you something about what was going on from moment to moment). But it was really only a piece of the problem as I realized over time, and even when I stopped caring as much about simulation there just wasn't much there for me to like. But you know what? What I care about has nothing to do with what deep fans of the game do (or should) care about. And until I internalized that it left my attitude toward it, well, pretty bad (not just in being negative, but in how and how often I felt the need to express that and with what fervor). [/QUOTE]

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