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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Deset Gled" data-source="post: 9695756" data-attributes="member: 7808">In defense of Ryujin and all that would disparage Oracle, it's worth noting that this background you give is entirely from the dev standpoint.  Let me fill the people in on what this was like as a user experience.So let's start from a critical point: no regular users ever wanted to install Java, but we had to because of it's prominence on the back end.  And Oracle has only cared about enterprise customers (i.e. the people that pay them), never the end user experience.From the get-go, there were problems with Java.  It was a huge vector for viruses and other types of malware.  Forget worrying about "older" versions of Java, in the 2000s you had to worry about the current version of Java having zero day exploits.  But of course those were problems for your anti-virus software, not Oracle.Java would also constantly want to update.  Did Java update itself?  Was it a quiet suggestion in the background? No, it required manual effort to handle and was as intrusive and annoying as possible.  You can still search for memes of Java updates requests popping into Windows at inopportune times (example: <a href="https://imgur.com/gallery/when-java-wants-to-update-j2qMI22" target="_blank">When Java wants to update</a>)Would Java at least update on a regular schedule?  No, you got a popup on whatever schedule Oracle pushed them out.  Was it a fast update?  It was a surprise! An update could be anywhere from a megabyte to a hundred megabytes.  Sometimes, it might even require a reboot to your system (and remember, this was often in the days where us plebeians had to boot off of spinning hard drives).Let's assume you're tech savvy enough to know Java updates are important, but don't want to stop what you're doing, download an update, and restart your computer constantly on someone else schedule.  Is there any way to know when an update is an important security update, or something minor for a system you'll never ever use?  Sorry, that's for Oracle to know, not end users.  An update is an update; there's no way to know what's inside it.  I suppose you could go online, manually hunt down the change log, and read every single line to find out, but it's not like Oracle would go out of their way to make that information easy to find or read.And, just to add insult to injury, there were times that after you rebooted from a Java update, the first thing you saw would be... another Java update.  If you got enough updates behind, you might need multiple updates just to get the darn thing to shut up.TLDR; people who lived through those countless years of living with "Java update available" randomly popping up have earned the right to demonize that hellspawn, even if we don't know or care what it does behind the curtain.  Oracle was an innovator in terrible UX, and has earned their reputuation with years of consistent work at it.</blockquote>

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