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Pit Fighter Balance
- Thread starter Starfox
- Start date
FireLance
Legend
It is strong, mostly because its 16th-level ability Dirty Fighting adds significantly to damage. It actually works better with classes that have multiple attack weapon powers such as the ranger. Those who think that iron armbands of power, pre-errata bloodclaw weapons, etc. are broken for the damage bonuses will probably find this paragon path too much as well.
Danceofmasks
First Post
Well, scaling damage bonuses to all damage rolls can get ridiculous.
You gotta, of course, build to take full advantage of them.
Some combos can get a little silly .. such as when you're using a weapon as an implement, and lay down a couple of big AoEs for buckets of damage.
But overall, I'd say it's a strong class, but not disgustingly OP.
You gotta, of course, build to take full advantage of them.
Some combos can get a little silly .. such as when you're using a weapon as an implement, and lay down a couple of big AoEs for buckets of damage.
But overall, I'd say it's a strong class, but not disgustingly OP.
I have kind of a strange house rule on that because I don't think it's bad for single class fighters, but too abusable by multiclassers.
I just added the following to the end of Dirty Fighting: "If you do not have a fighter talent class feature, you can only apply this bonus once per round to one target you hit."
It's still very strong, and possibly still a good option for the ranger or the avenger, and possibly still too good for hybrids, but at least there is an extra disincentive to multiclass just to get into Pit Fighter. I did the same change to Kensei Mastery.
I just added the following to the end of Dirty Fighting: "If you do not have a fighter talent class feature, you can only apply this bonus once per round to one target you hit."
It's still very strong, and possibly still a good option for the ranger or the avenger, and possibly still too good for hybrids, but at least there is an extra disincentive to multiclass just to get into Pit Fighter. I did the same change to Kensei Mastery.
Danceofmasks
First Post
With your houserule, it's still borked for one of the original builds, though:
Fighter > Ranger > Paragon multiclassing for twin strike
Edit:
OOOPS ... me sleep deprived. Paragon multiclassing and PP are mutually exclusive.
Edit2:
Wait ... don't battlerager & tempest replace weapon talent?
:O
Fighter > Ranger > Paragon multiclassing for twin strike
Edit:
OOOPS ... me sleep deprived. Paragon multiclassing and PP are mutually exclusive.
Edit2:
Wait ... don't battlerager & tempest replace weapon talent?
:O
Last edited:
Starfox
Hero
Asking because I have a fighter outdamaging the rest in a party. There are other problems in the party as well, but the damage imbalance is the worst. This is a typical damage breakdown for a fight:
40% Human Fighter/Guardian/Pit Fighter
30% Human Rogue/Artful Dodger/Daggermaster (throw and hide)
20% Eladrin Swordmage/Warding/Wandering Swordmage
10% Satyr Bard/Graceful Bard/Shapedancer
The swordmage sometimes outdamages the rogue when there are many enemies (Swordburst + resounding thunder + enlarge spell = close burst 3 targets enemies), but in general this is how it works out.
The fighter is more heavily built for damage than the others, particularly in magic items. The high damage is constant, but particularly noticeable when he spends an action point, doing two actions both with several attacks/targets and both Wis bonus and +1/2 level bonus from Pit Fighter.
I feel the Artful Dodger underperforms a bit, compared to how a Brutal Scoundrel would and becomes overly dependent on Sly Flourish. Her encounter and daily powers don't perform very well compared to Sly Flourish. And Daggermaster is very chancy - the rogue player is noted as being unlucky.
The bard is feeling useless - with 2 defenders and a rogue that is almost always hidden, there is rarely much need to heal, and the player is underwhelmed by bard buffs and attacks. He is playing a homebrew bard variant, the Graceful Bard.
40% Human Fighter/Guardian/Pit Fighter
30% Human Rogue/Artful Dodger/Daggermaster (throw and hide)
20% Eladrin Swordmage/Warding/Wandering Swordmage
10% Satyr Bard/Graceful Bard/Shapedancer
The swordmage sometimes outdamages the rogue when there are many enemies (Swordburst + resounding thunder + enlarge spell = close burst 3 targets enemies), but in general this is how it works out.
The fighter is more heavily built for damage than the others, particularly in magic items. The high damage is constant, but particularly noticeable when he spends an action point, doing two actions both with several attacks/targets and both Wis bonus and +1/2 level bonus from Pit Fighter.
I feel the Artful Dodger underperforms a bit, compared to how a Brutal Scoundrel would and becomes overly dependent on Sly Flourish. Her encounter and daily powers don't perform very well compared to Sly Flourish. And Daggermaster is very chancy - the rogue player is noted as being unlucky.
The bard is feeling useless - with 2 defenders and a rogue that is almost always hidden, there is rarely much need to heal, and the player is underwhelmed by bard buffs and attacks. He is playing a homebrew bard variant, the Graceful Bard.
That's why I said "fighter talent" not "weapon talent".
A Footpad's Friend weapon might help her perform a bit more like a Brutal Scoundrel in the damage department.
Danceofmasks
First Post
*shrug*
It's probably as much an artifact of the group's tactics as it is builds and items.
Rogue:
I find daggermasters crit-fish much better if they make more attack rolls.
My daggermaster build is a drow (cloud of darkness = 2 turns of free CA), and tries to get as many attack rolls as possible (cloud of steel, blinding barrage, low slash, burst fire, etc), and use sneak attack on the crits (to max 'em).
Since with first strike and flanking the rogue can usually get CA, subtle dagger ftw.
Swordmage:
PP with great fluff but unspectacular mechanics
Bard:
Moving ppl around doesn't make them die faster .. unless you have, for example, a character around that sets fire to the world.
Add a controller that drops walls and zones, and graceful bards might be a lot more amusing.
My favourite bard is teh war chanter, but then that class is way strong. IMO cheesier than pit fighters.
Perhaps approximately quadrupling the # of temp hp a valorous bard can grant per round (upon hitting paragon) is a bit too much.
Not to mention the hands down ridiculous hit/dam bonuses from AP.
It's probably as much an artifact of the group's tactics as it is builds and items.
Rogue:
I find daggermasters crit-fish much better if they make more attack rolls.
My daggermaster build is a drow (cloud of darkness = 2 turns of free CA), and tries to get as many attack rolls as possible (cloud of steel, blinding barrage, low slash, burst fire, etc), and use sneak attack on the crits (to max 'em).
Since with first strike and flanking the rogue can usually get CA, subtle dagger ftw.
Swordmage:
PP with great fluff but unspectacular mechanics
Bard:
Moving ppl around doesn't make them die faster .. unless you have, for example, a character around that sets fire to the world.
Add a controller that drops walls and zones, and graceful bards might be a lot more amusing.
My favourite bard is teh war chanter, but then that class is way strong. IMO cheesier than pit fighters.
Perhaps approximately quadrupling the # of temp hp a valorous bard can grant per round (upon hitting paragon) is a bit too much.
Not to mention the hands down ridiculous hit/dam bonuses from AP.
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