PL 6-ish Agent type?

[Jeff Wilder]

I'm looking for a plug-and-play agent (think Hydra or the H.I.V.E.) archetype of somewhere around PL 6. I would have sworn I'd seen one in one of my book, but paging through I can't find it. Anybody know where I can find one? (I could build it myself, but I'm trying to save effort.)

 

[Mark Chance]

The xenocollector agents found on the Atomic Think Tank might fit the bill.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Stuff in GR books:
Agents of Freedom has a lot of PL 6 archetypes in the back. Many could be used for "elite mooks". Or you can lift the various SHADOW archetypes from their chapter in that book.
Instant Superheroes has a "sidekick" apendix that is PL 6 versions of the base archetypes. One of these is the "agent".
M&M 2e has a PL 6 SWAT Officer. That would do most of what you'd want from something like a HYDRA agent.

Really? PL 6 for HYDRA agents? Those schmoes are PL 4 (use the M&M Terorist archetype), maybe 5 if you give them good lasers (and 6 if you give them really good lasers).

Good luck.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Excellent pointers. Thanks, guys.

As for the PL, I'm remembering my days of playing Champions, where agents could be dangerous to a PC. As far as I can tell, the lowest PL at which someone can be dangerous to a PC in M&M (in combat) is PL 6.

FWIW, Brubaker's Captain America (Bucky) seems to take quite a while to go through a knot of four agents, so they're not that "minionesque."

 

[Elric]

As far as I can tell, the lowest PL at which someone can be dangerous to a PC in M&M (in combat) is PL 6.

FWIW, Brubaker's Captain America (Bucky) seems to take quite a while to go through a knot of four agents, so they're not that "minionesque."

I'm assuming you mean for PL 10 PCs. That's a pretty accurate view. I'd say you can go down to PC PL-5 and still have NPCs be somewhat effective.

For example, in my combat simulation/calculations basic case, a PL 5 attacker takes four times as long to KO a PL 10 defender as a PL 10 attacker would, and the PL 5 defender goes down in a third the attacks from a PL 10 attacker that would be required to KO a PL 10 defender.

NPCs at lower PLs are significantly more dangerous if they have Perception-range attacks (so they don't need to roll to hit). Mental Blast 3 is somewhat fearsome to a PL 10 PC (among archetypes, average Will save +8). A goon with +5 attack and a 5 damage blaster pistol is not.

 

[coyote6]

If you want slightly more durable minions, you can also tweak the minion rules. I have most minions KO'd if they fail a Toughness save by 5+; if they fail by 4 or less, they're just stunned.

When M&M 2e came out, I was running a campaign where the PCs were the amongst the first supers, so at first it didn't make sense to me for there to be a lot of villains for them to fight -- so they went up against a lot of agents, robots, & other minions. I was watching a kung fu movie and noted that, like a lot of minion-ful movies and TV shows, many of the mooks didn't actually go down in one shot -- they got hit, fell down or staggered back, were out of the way for a bit while the hero dealt with another batch of minions, then rushed back into the fight, and eventually get KO'd. But a lot of the times, there were minions in a state other than "fine" and "out".

 

[Elric]

If you want slightly more durable minions, you can also tweak the minion rules. I have most minions KO'd if they fail a Toughness save by 5+; if they fail by 4 or less, they're just stunned.

I essentially used this rule to create "tough minions" (though I had other minions that went by the normal minion rules) at one point. One negative feature is that since you can still take 10 on attack rolls against "tough minions", this can give Powerhouses (low attack, high damage) a greater relative advantage when dealing with low PL minions over Martial Artist (high attack, low damage).

Another option that I've seen for tougher minions is making it so non-minions can't take 10 on attack rolls against minions. This comparatively weakens damage-shifted characters more than attack-shifted ones, and in the campaign where this rule was used (Warriors and Warlocks- swords and sorcery feel), that this rule didn't affect area attacks only made the pyromancer feel more uniquely capable at minion-clearing. In regular M&M, this rules change might slant things too much in favor of using area attacks to beat minions.

 

[coyote6]

Which reminds me -- avoid giving minions Evasion 2; I generally don't give them Evasion at all (with the possible exception of ridiculously agile minions), but Evasion 2 is just GM cheese on minions, IMO.

(It's cheesy on everyone, really. Evasion 2 should have been left in D&D. )

 

[ValhallaGH]

Excellent pointers. Thanks, guys.

You're most welcome. I hope the following is also useful.

As for the PL, I'm remembering my days of playing Champions, where agents could be dangerous to a PC. As far as I can tell, the lowest PL at which someone can be dangerous to a PC in M&M (in combat) is PL 6.

Oh, agents can be dangerous. It's all about how they attack and how they fight.
Example: PL 4 terrorists lay in ambush for the hero(es). They see the hero(es) and take time to Improved Aim, then strike from surprise. So, the hero(es) are on a flat-footed defense (typically ~15) and the terrorists are on a +8 to hit for +4 to +6 damage (70% chance to hit, 60% chance of +5 damage, 50% chance of +6 damage).
If those same terrorists Combine fire, that's another +2 damage per combining terrorist, quickly reaching +10 to +16 damage. Even a Powerhouse hero is going to be in trouble from that kind of opening attack.
HYDRA utterly relies upon Combine Attack to have a chance at actually dropping heroes. When twenty guys are hitting you at about the same time, it is danged likely to hurt even if they are only hitting with college-athlete strength.

Or you can cheese it up by giving them low-rank super powers, net guns (Snare gets mean quickly), and other unusual effects. Mental Blast (and the other mind ravaging powers) are extremely powerful against most heroes.

FWIW, Brubaker's Captain America (Bucky) seems to take quite a while to go through a knot of four agents, so they're not that "minionesque."

Well, Bucky is "only" doing +4 to +8 damage, which is a DC 19 to 23 toughness save. That's nasty, but a PL 3 can make those if he's lucky. On the flip side, a PL 15 can get messed up by those same damages if he's unlucky (assuming he's not very Impervious, which is uncommon in Marvel).

Regardless, good luck.