Planar binding = unlimited wishes?

[Storyteller01]

...oh, and Plane Shift can affect an unwilling target.

Not in the case of the genie.

Per the SRD (emphasis mine):
A genie can enter any of the elemental planes, the Astral Plane, or the Material Plane. This ability transports the genie and up to eight other creatures, provided they all link hands with the genie. It is otherwise similar to the spell of the same name (caster level 13th).

 

[Storyteller01]

But what is the value of the wishes? Essentially it's the value of the Efreeti's time, plus mark-up. Only meta-game considerations say that it needs to be valued equivalently to the cost of a wizard casting a wish. Why should the Efreet charge enormously more than for the use of any of his other 3/day spell-like abilties.

The same reason you mark up anything...

People will pay that much for it.

 

[Felix]

No, definitely not. How do you refute my post above? It's at most +1 to all stats.

If the genie can cast Wish 3 times a day, and he does it in 3 successive rounds, then wouldn't that render a +3 bonus to a stat?

EDIT:

Lesser Planar Binding
"Once the requested service is completed, the creature need only so inform you to be instantly sent back whence it came."

Note that IF you consider the act of Wishing an inherent bonus to be one act, and also argue that it is not possible within the negotiating stage of Planar Binding to contract for multiple acts, then this sentence makes it possible for the genie to perform one act (the first of three Wishes) and yet remain present, allowing it to perform two other acts (two more Wishes) upon the conjurer. Note that the genie is not sent back when the act is completed, but when the conjurer is informed of its completion.

Why the genie might want to do so does not matter; what matters is that it is possible for the genie to do it.

And so I submit that it is possible to gain more than a +1 to a stat from a Planar Bound genie.

Does that satisfy?

But what is the value of the wishes?

How should I know? It's the value agreed upon by the genie and the conjurer; it will depend upon the respective barganing abilities of those characters. The point is, the Wish holds great value for the PC. The genie will know this, and thereby be able to demand a great deal in return for his services.

The actual amount of the "great deal" is not a meta-construct; it's what's determined in the negotiating phase of the Planar Binding spell. It's an in-character development.

The metagame aspect is that the PC will be forced to either consent to the amount demanded by the genie, or resort to threatening the genie's life. If he chooses to pay, the PC's resources are reduced by the value of the bonus to the ability score: Balanced. If he chooses to threaten, the PC's life will become the subject of frequent assualts, thereby increasing the danger to his person in an amount relative to the benefit he has recieved: Balanced.

There's no need for house-ruling or Wish-perversion; there are automatic balancing mechanisms that will take care of the problem for you Dr. Awk.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Does that satisfy?

No, because I disagree with the following:

If the genie can cast Wish 3 times a day, and he does it in 3 successive rounds, then wouldn't that render a +3 bonus to a stat?

It's "up to" 3 wishes, not 3 wishes. It's up to the DM at that point to limit it. But, let's not limit it to less than 3. The next problem is that planar binding is "one service." Assuredly, that's rather ambiguous, but I suggest that it's reasonable that one wish == one service. Three wishes == three services. This means it will require some amount of time between services and thus you cannot gain 3 successive wishes.

...
Why the genie might want to do so does not matter; what matters is that it is possible for the genie to do it.

And so I submit that it is possible to gain more than a +1 to a stat from a Planar Bound genie.

But if the three wishes are separate services, don't you think that the bargaining (or whatever) in between would negate the "immediate succession" requirements for inherent bonuses?

 

[Felix]

But if the three wishes are separate services, don't you think that the bargaining (or whatever) in between would negate the "immediate succession" requirements for inherent bonuses?

You said that the maximum possible inherent bonus from a genie's 3 wishes was +1.

Is it, or is it not, possible for the genie to simply decide to use his 3 Wishes in succession in order to provide a +3 inherent bonus?

The argument over whether or not the genie will do it is something else, and specious if it is not first possible for him to do it.

So:

Is it possible for a Planar Bound genie to use 3 Wishes to grant a +3 inherent bonus? Yes or no?

 

[Sejs]

Not in the case of the genie.

Per the SRD (emphasis mine):
A genie can enter any of the elemental planes, the Astral Plane, or the Material Plane. This ability transports the genie and up to eight other creatures, provided they all link hands with the genie. It is otherwise similar to the spell of the same name (caster level 13th).

That's not exactly a preclusion, more a complication.

Grapple the to-be planar kidnap victim. Establishing a pin would seem sufficient to meet the linked hand requirement.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

It does appear that by the rules there are some grounds for allowing a player to do this. I could argue the rules but really my objection is just that a hard to get reward is being gained far too easy. In some respects planar binding it is a bit like polymorph in that its power is limited by whatever monster books are available.

My response would be two fold.

Firstly, outside the game I would inform the players that activities that in my opinion would allow the aquisition of significant power many levels (i.e. more than 2 levels) before they are suitable, will ruin the campaign. So that's the bottom line. Getting infinite wishes at level <15 is simply just fatal to the campaign and their favourite characters in that campaign.

Secondly, I think that this sort of reward would be more suitable for around 18th level+. So I would make it so. I would do something like have an Efreet Raja control it's subjects and particularly their granted wishes, ensuring that they are used to ultimately benefit Efreetidom. If an Efreet's wishes are not used appropriately the offending Efreet is scried, divined, summoned and punished. The co-offending mortals then get a lovely gate spell opening next to them and an EL18 punitive party of Efreetikind falling upon their heads. Planar knowledge, sages and bards can all warn of this for the conjuror that indulges in the most rudimentary research practices.

Basically, the players and the characters will be warned of my approach, and the activity will still be allowed but at a more appropriate level.

 

[Moorcrys]

Couldn't the efreeti simply grant the three wishes to be released from service, return to its fiery domain, wait a day, and then ask a non-genie ally to use its three wishes the following day to undo the three wishes it made the day before? Or plane shift to some farmer tending his fields in the middle of nowhere and threaten untold pain or even future fulfillment of that farmer's wishes to undo the wishes the efreet made the previous day? I mean if the PCs are going to be snarky about it, why can't the efreet?

As weak as the efreet may be to the PCs, there are a lot of beings a whole lot weaker than the efreet who can be manipulated or simply threatened into undoing the PCs actions that were not made in good faith... so the PCs get a day or so of bumped stats. And an enemy. And some guy in the middle of nowhere gets his hoe turned into a beautiful stepford wife and a stawpile into a mound of gold for helping out a wronged and miffed evil extra-planar being of fire. Meh.

There need be no genie warfare...

 

[IcyCool]

What's the type of Inevitable that hunts down and destroys those who abuse the Wish spell? I remember them being pretty damn powerful. And they really don't like those who fiddle with reality. I'd gather that Efreet would know about them, and fear them.

Edit - Moorcrys's idea is fantastic as well. It neatly wraps up the whole, "Why doesn't everyone do this?" question.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Couldn't the efreeti simply grant the three wishes to be released from service, return to its fiery domain, wait a day, and then ask a non-genie ally to use its three wishes the following day to undo the three wishes it made the day before? Or plane shift to some farmer tending his fields in the middle of nowhere and threaten untold pain or even future fulfillment of that farmer's wishes to undo the wishes the efreet made the previous day? I mean if the PCs are going to be snarky about it, why can't the efreet?

I don't know, why is the efreeti being such a dick about it? Is he under some sort of compulsion to thwart the PCs or what?

I would think that an efreeti would be happy to have use of his wishes as the service requested. It's a heck of a lot safer than "go fight that giant monster" and he can get it over and done with a lot quicker too. Throw in some minor magic item as a bonus, and it's a pretty sweet deal for him.

Seriously, would you expect the same reaction from the efreeti if the PCs called it up and asked it to fight a monster? How about to serve as their butler for a day when they're having a feast, to impress the neighboring king? What about to spend an hour conversing with the party wizard about the elemental planes so that he can increase his Knowledge: Planes ranks? All of these things are way more of a hassle and time drain than using his wishes.

Is there any service that the PCs can request that won't result in the Efreeti coming back for revenge?