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<blockquote data-quote="TwinBahamut" data-source="post: 4636984" data-attributes="member: 32536">Err, no. I didn't do that at all.I had two points in that post. The first was a description of &quot;conceptual space&quot; meant to explain why it is impossible (or at least unsatisfying) to have both the Inner Planes and the Elemental Chaos in the same cosmology. I then expanded my use of the idea to explain one of my criticisms of the Great Wheel.Only my second point was related to your offhand comment about letting something &quot;be&quot;, and that point had nothing to do with &quot;conceptual space&quot;.I am fairly sure I understood your meaning quite well, really.You misunderstood me. I was not denying that the Inner Planes and the Lady of Pain have effects upon the feel of a cosmology. My statements depended upon that assumption, actually. Rather, I was trying to make the claim that the Elemental Chaos has the exact same effect as the Inner Planes in this regard (and thus nothing is lost in the conversion, though there is a different feel, I admit), and I was claiming that I don't like the quite noticeable effect the Lady of Pain has upon the D&amp;D cosmology. The Lady of Pain creates a certain &quot;feel&quot;, but it is one I totally loathe (though I suppose it would be hard for me to persuade you about this part). I have no problem with something existing purely for the sake of flavor as long as it doesn't occupy the same conceptual space or page count of something that has both flavor and function, but I do have a problem with things that create a flavor I simply don't like.I think the difference really is more of a matter of taste than tolerance for things without utility. At the same time, I don't think that improving utility limits flavor, like you seem to. If something has flavor, there is no reason it can't also have utility, and vice-versa. Overall, there seems to be an inherent assumption in many of your posts and arguments that &quot;Inner Planes = flavor but low utility, while Elemental Chaos = utility but low flavor&quot;, that I just don't agree with. For me, the Elemental Chaos has just as much flavor as the Inner Planes (though more to my taste), and also more utility.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TwinBahamut, post: 4636984, member: 32536"] Err, no. I didn't do that at all. I had two points in that post. The first was a description of "conceptual space" meant to explain why it is impossible (or at least unsatisfying) to have both the Inner Planes and the Elemental Chaos in the same cosmology. I then expanded my use of the idea to explain one of my criticisms of the Great Wheel. Only my second point was related to your offhand comment about letting something "be", and that point had nothing to do with "conceptual space". I am fairly sure I understood your meaning quite well, really. You misunderstood me. I was not denying that the Inner Planes and the Lady of Pain have effects upon the feel of a cosmology. My statements depended upon that assumption, actually. Rather, I was trying to make the claim that the Elemental Chaos has the exact same effect as the Inner Planes in this regard (and thus nothing is lost in the conversion, though there is a different feel, I admit), and I was claiming that I [i]don't like[/i] the quite noticeable effect the Lady of Pain has upon the D&D cosmology. The Lady of Pain creates a certain "feel", but it is one I totally loathe (though I suppose it would be hard for me to persuade you about this part). I have no problem with something existing purely for the sake of flavor as long as it doesn't occupy the same conceptual space or page count of something that has both flavor and function, but I do have a problem with things that create a flavor I simply don't like. I think the difference really is more of a matter of taste than tolerance for things without utility. At the same time, I don't think that improving utility limits flavor, like you seem to. If something has flavor, there is no reason it can't also have utility, and vice-versa. Overall, there seems to be an inherent assumption in many of your posts and arguments that "Inner Planes = flavor but low utility, while Elemental Chaos = utility but low flavor", that I just don't agree with. For me, the Elemental Chaos has just as much flavor as the Inner Planes (though more to my taste), and also more utility. [/QUOTE]

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