(Planescape) Factions and the average Sigil resident

[Sword of Spirit]

What percentage of Sigil residents are members of factions?

I don't have a huge library of Planescape material, but what I do have makes it difficult to discern design intent.

Before I come up with my own way of doing it, does anyone know if official materials provide an answer?

 

[MoutonRustique]

Residents, as in permanent residents, ~80% (i.e. almost everyone)

People currently in Sigil : ~50% I'd say.

These numbers come straight out of my be-hind. But! (hehehe) There is a bit of method to the madness here: since we know that those who reject the factions "are" a faction, it stands to reason that there are precious few that aren't affiliated in some way.

It's kind of like religion in a sense - go back ~70 years: how many people in North American weren't "part" of a religion... pretty damn close to zero... But it's not like most of them were clerics (or even involved really). It was just the way things were.

There are probably a whole lot of faction members who would probably be a better fit in another faction - but then again, seeing the power of belief, it's quite probable that being a member for a while changes you a bit (I'm not talking about you're belief here, btw - others' belief will change you out on the planes.)

As with all things PS, there are two main things to take into account:
1 - you don't know how it works (even as the DM, you might be wrong!)
2 - it's your game, make it be as you think it be best! (but see point 1 )

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I was thinking of the religion similarity (pretty much exactly how you described it). It works pretty well with the idea that worship of traditional pantheons and deities is less likely for the Sigilians* who are described as rather jaded--since they can see the dealings of the deities more up-close and personal and aren't as awed by it all as Primes. Plus, with all the various deities and their afterlives side-by side, a religion doesn't provide as much of a comprehensive worldview to a Sigilian. If typical D&D religion isn't all that popular, it makes sense that people would want to fill that role in some other way, with a more comprehensive worldview--hence the philosophical factions. If this is the case, I would also expect that there are a rather large number of other "factions" (I'm talking pre-Faction War, because I like that time better) sort of "hiding" within the blanket of Indeps. In fact, that might actually be who the majority of Indeps are--members of smaller groups that aren't allowed to be official factions.

If that were the case, there would probably need to be more active faction-based community bonding rituals involved than I've gotten the impression there are. Religions are about doing as well as believing. Also, you have to interpret the rather active descriptions of faction members as representative of a more extreme minority, with the average Sigilian taking the more laid-back, less actively committed view you talked about.

The other hitch with that view is that there are still priests of the various deities/pantheons without the factions. Sometimes, it seems like those viewpoints aren't entirely compatible, but the material says they these priests are there, so we'll call that a gimme. Perhaps Sigilian priests view their religions through a different lens, with compatible deities being sort of a manifestation of their faction's viewpoint, or someone who is really far along on the path. So a Harmonium priest of Tyr might see Tyr as a really good Harmonium member. (Hints of Buddhist philosophy here.) It doesn't have to be a huge issue, since people in the real world can be part of religion (comparing to a faction) and still be part of some other highly committed group (comparing to an ardent member of a political party, for instance), but it is something to take into account. I suppose the average Sigilian probably neither knows nor cares much about the specific details of what deities their priests serve. They just go to a Harmonium (example) priest for their priestly needs.

The other way of interpreting it would be that factions are more like extremist groups, without only a minority of Sigilians being members of them (you just can't have the majority of a population--especially a population of explicitly jaded folk--as members of extremist groups.) In that case, the average Sigilian would probably identify with some religion or another, and the Factions are almost considered trouble-makers to steer clear of. Of course, the materials I've seen seem to be against that view, listing pretty much all NPCs as faction members, so that's probably a less likely scenario.

So most likely it is basically the first scenario. What bugs me though is that it isn't clearly spelled out--and it really needs to be spelled out to have any sort of normal interaction with the average non-faction zealot Sigilian. They could have just said "Most Sigilians don't have religions--they have Factions. Factions serve a similar role in the life of the average Sigilian, and their adherents run the gamut between ardent supporters and fanatics, to the larger majority who are only nominal members without a strong commitment. The exceptions to not having religions are clerics and certain other individuals who for one reason or another maintain worship of a deity or pantheon alongside their faction membership. In those cases they tend to take a perspective on their religion that makes it compatible with their faction."

*Not sure if this is the correct term, but I'm going to use it for lack of a better one. I'm referring not only to residents of Sigil, but to their planar culture, which as I understand it is also the culture of the gate-towns and a few other faction strongholds and settlements out their. I don't imagine every planar humanoid is a member of that culture, but it seems to be the dominant one.

 

[(un)reason]

Had a good look through the two planescape sourcebooks devoted to sigil. Of all the detailed NPC's in them, this is the number that have a faction. In the cage: A guide to sigil 31/35. Uncaged, Faces of Sigil 21/42. This is a fairly substantial discrepancy between the two books, but the gap gets smaller when you take into account most of the unaligned ones are weird npc's which don't engage with the social structure, or powerful outsiders which have more important intrinsic allegiances than some mortal philosophy.

So going by the books, It looks like most members of PC races who live in sigil have a faction, or at least join the Free League to have some degree of representation, because the place has a lot of terrifying Outsiders that can squash an unprepared human like a bug, so you really need a social structure that has your back as a deterrence. That they also provide philosophies and goals that give your life a direction is a plus too, especially in universes where belief shapes reality, but even if that wasn't the case, human scale creatures living amongst more powerful but rarer ones would naturally form strong social groups for protection.

 

[BronzeDragon]

Sigilians*
*Not sure if this is the correct term, but I'm going to use it for lack of a better one. I'm referring not only to residents of Sigil, but to their planar culture, which as I understand it is also the culture of the gate-towns and a few other faction strongholds and settlements out their. I don't imagine every planar humanoid is a member of that culture, but it seems to be the dominant one.

Cagers. As in "people who live in the Cage."

IIRC of course.

 

[Greenmtn]

Yeah people in Sigil are usually called Cagers.

Seems to me that in Sigil "Anyone who is Anyone" is at least associated at arms length with a faction.

If you think about it from the factols point of view. The more you get people to believe the way you do the more powerful your belief becomes. Now the extent of your involvement may vary. A lot like political parties in today's politics. There are few dedicated enough to be movers and shakers, more that have drank the koolaid and care enough to do grunt work, a lot that will tow the line because thats just what you do, and a lot that just scratch the surface enough to decide that it sounds good and that they need to belong to something.

Be aware, if using minor factions.. The ones that run the factions have a lot of power, and they all want more and are not apt to want to share the power they have (After all thats what lead to the faction war isn't it). I'm not saying don't use minor factions but ask yourself how the other factions react if they find out this faction exists? Is it really a faction or a gang, secret society, cult, etc.?

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Okay, so I finished reading the Factol's Manifesto, and I have determined that the answer is that the material is inconsistent.

The Factol's Manifesto gives actual numbers for some of the factions, and describes initiation and the duties of new members. According to the way it presents it, every Harmonium member really does go out on guard duty. And their factol's 14 year old daughter wants to become a member when she grows up.

So the premise that it presents is that most citizens of Sigil aren't members of factions.

But then you have the other books which list just about every NPC as a faction member, plus you have the rule in the original boxed set that all planar PCs must start as faction members (of course, that could just be the 1990's era RPG writer domineering), plus you have this text about the Free League in the original set: "There's nobody who's got a sure key to the truth, so it pays to keep the options open. Maybe the multiverse is like the Lost say, but it could be the way the Godsmen tell it. Side with one view and find out it's wrong and, well, a fellow comes up a loser. There's no wisdom in that! Still, a body's got to belong to something, if he wants to stay alive."

Now, that is presented semi-in-character, but it doesn't change the point. The original boxed set implies pretty much everyone is in a faction, and the NPCs throughout the product line back that up.

In this case, I think I'm going to call foul on the Factol's Manifesto. It contradicts the greater weight of material.

It actually seems to enjoy contradicting material. As an example, comparing it to In the Cage, we find a different setup for the City Court (among other things). In the Cage has non-Guvner judges, while Factol's Manifesto has a more tightly controlled Guvner only legal system.

What is annoying is that these products literally came out a month apart, and they can't even get their story straight.

While I'm at it, the Factol's Manifesto seems to take a messed up view of the Indeps. The original set implies to me that they are pretty much the faction for people who don't want to commit to a real faction. It describes them in basically faction agnostic terms; and even says some of them have their own distinctive views and might want to start their own factions. The Factol's Manifesto, on the other hand, describes them as these philosophical individualists with an extremist level of zeal. I think they really missed the original intent on that one--but I suppose they needed to do something like that if they were going to make factions be a minority.

If I hadn't had as long to thing about it and read the discrepancies, I probably would have went with factions as a minority, just so that they aren't permeating everything. But after thinking through what actually makes sense for people living in the setting, I think I'm going to go with the factions = religions premise we discussed, and just pick and choose which material I like from the books.

Apparently, the discrepancies in the Factol's Manifesto are a "known issue", or at least this is what Monte Cook (author of the original set) had to say about it:

"As for Factol's Manifesto, some of the sections I think are great expansions on the faction background, but there are a few (particularly the Mercykillers, unless my memory is toast) that seemed to wildly miss the point, even to the extent of making the faction unplayable."

That really got me to want to carefully review the original presentation of each faction after reading their Factol's Manifesto entry to try pin down which ones might have missed the mark.

And a random question, in case anyone happens to know the answer: What is the point of the City Armory?

Seriously, the books all agree that the Doomguard keep the weapons away from the Harmonium...which are basically the people who the Armory should be supporting. Who else would an official city armory be supplying but the authorized law enforcement or military for that city? The Factol's Manifesto has them basically just selling them like a giant weapon's shop, which seems absurd.

 

[see]

After Faction War, zero.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

After Faction War, zero.

I play pre-Faction War, because I don't think the setting needs shaken up, and would rather experience the classic feel.