D&D 5E Plate Mail and hobgoblins

[Blue]

No one has come close to getting at least 1,500gp per share by level 5.

That per share is a caveat that is far from universally true. My players will often pool money to get one PC something useful for them all. "Hmm, 400gp in my pouch, or that front liner who's been protecting my cloth covered rear can have better armor and will pay me back. Deal."

Look, at 5th 1500 is affordable for the party to have one suit of plate. The potential issues is ... one suit of plate. Seems like it's blowing it out of proportion some. If a CR6 monster could have gotten it in OP world economics, why is it out of the realm of possibility for a level 5 character to get it?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Page 274 suggests increasing the CR by 1 for every 2 points defense higher than the monster stat table suggests for its hit points.

Those are the quick guidelines. Read the full guidelines for AC. I think it's the first or second paragraph on page 276, but I'm AFB so can't check page numbers. Top of the left-side page anyway.

 

[Warbringer]

Those are the quick guidelines. Read the full guidelines for AC. I think it's the first or second paragraph on page 276, but I'm AFB so can't check page numbers. Top of the left-side page anyway.

I'm not seeing anything that contradicts increasing the CR with increasing AC. Indeed Step 7 starts with "A montser's AC has a direct bearing on its challenge rating, and vice versa."... But I could easily be missing something.

 

[Mirtek]

I don't see why one should make such a fuss over plate armor. A heavy armor PC will start with chainmail, upgrade to splint armor very soon and from there plate is not that big of an upgrade and rather overpriced compared to splint.

 

[77IM]

Some of my players complain about the "monster items are unsellable" rule. If the item works perfectly well for the monster who is smashing your face with it, why won't snotty shopkeepers buy it? At least at a discount -- "ugly, dirty and smelly, but works" is probably just fine for someone outfitting a peasant militia or something.

So the house-rule I instituted is, crap gear is vulnerable to all damage. It's the inverse of how magic items are resistant to all damage. This has led to some interesting tactical moves; for example, last session they were having trouble hitting a boss, so they sundered his shield, which was only feasible because it was monster-quality.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this or not (didn't read every page), but my players PC's had a little scrap with about 6 hobgoblins plus a leader with plate mail. The PC's won (they were about level 3 I think then), after a decent fight. Anyway, the paladin naturally asked about the plate armor. I told him that, yes, he was roughly the right size, and that, yes, with a few adjustments by an armorer it could be fitted for his wyr frame (Wyr in my world are "lizard-like" guys...sort of like dragonborn, without the dragon stuff; https://paeleen.obsidianportal.com/wikis/main-page ).

That said, I also informed him that it would be quite "socially detrimental" to him. It is, after all, hobgoblin made and styled plate mail. Hobgoblins are nasty, dangerous, bloodthirsty killers who eat other sentient races (with children being a delicacy). Now, maybe other DM's just let all that slide, but last time I did that was probably over 20 years ago. Since then, I make a point to make the player write down "hobgoblin plate mail", or "orcish scale armor", or "ogre great-axe"... anything not of the normally acceptable "civilized races" of the world in question. Using, wearing or otherwise toting around in plain view of such monsterous and evil equipment has some very real social and political, uh, "difficulties".

The paladin opted to just sell it for scrap and save up for more heroic and 'good' looking stuff.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[jgsugden]

Does it ruin the game for a PC to find plate at 5th? No. Not by itself. It'd just be wise to be cautious about it. If you dig into the game, the numbers beneath the treasure tables give some good hints where you might expect to acquire something as useful as plate mail.

I would suggest that many of you could benefit from sitting down with the DMG and generating a sample set o treasure hordes for an entire 20 level career for a group. Page 133 says that a party should find ~ 7 of the 0-4 level hoards, ~ 18 hoards from 5 to 10, ~ 12 hoards from 11 to 16 and ~ 8 from the highest tier hoards. If you start generating those hoards you'll find that there are a lot of one shot items to be found, but only ~ 30 magic items that don't disappear when used - or about 6 per PC in a 5 PC party - 30 items over 20 levels. As for cash a character that is saving his cash might be able to afford platemail sometime between levels 5 and 8. Finding a useable set of platemail on an enemy is a pretty huge benefit - a lot like finding a rare magic item. Platemail is a lot like +1 Spintmail - and that is only available on the Table H treasure table. That table only comes up 2% of the time when those 18 to 5th to 10th level hoards are rolled up. The odds are pretty good that no Table H treasures will show up in a treasure hoard before 11th level (or later).

In the end, 5th edition is an edition that tries to walk two extremes at the same time when it comes to items - items are iconic and rare, but at the same time their impact is overshadowed by the abilities of the PC classes. They're big deals and little deals at the same time - and platemail, which is priced like a rare magic item, is not really any different. PCs should not likely encounter it before 5th, and the typical point where it might be acquired is probably closer to 8th to 13th in a 'by the book' game.

 

[aramis erak]

Curious. So can I assume in your games that no PC can ever wear plate mail they find during an adventure without having it modified by a blacksmith then, since the odds of two people being the exact same build are pretty darn improbable?

To be honest, I don't worry about it - if they're the same species. Nor for magic armors... IFM, man.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I'm not seeing anything that contradicts increasing the CR with increasing AC. Indeed Step 7 starts with "A montser's AC has a direct bearing on its challenge rating, and vice versa."... But I could easily be missing something.

276: "alternatively, you can determine an appropriate AC based on the type of armor the monster wears, its natural armor, or some other AC booster (such as the Mage Armor spell). Again, don't worry if the monster's AC isn't matching up with the expected challenge rating for the monster."

That's why hobgoblins are CR 1/4 instead of CR 1, as they would be by the quick rules on 274.

 

[Coredump]

I would suggest that many of you could benefit from sitting down with the DMG and generating a sample set o treasure hordes for an entire 20 level career for a group. Page 133 says that a party should find ~ 7 of the 0-4 level hoards, ~ 18 hoards from 5 to 10, ~ 12 hoards from 11 to 16 and ~ 8 from the highest tier hoards. If you start generating those hoards you'll find that there are a lot of one shot items to be found, but only ~ 30 magic items that don't disappear when used - or about 6 per PC in a 5 PC party - 30 items over 20 levels. As for cash a character that is saving his cash might be able to afford platemail sometime between levels 5 and 8. Finding a useable set of platemail on an enemy is a pretty huge benefit - a lot like finding a rare magic item. Platemail is a lot like +1 Spintmail - and that is only available on the Table H treasure table. That table only comes up 2% of the time when those 18 to 5th to 10th level hoards are rolled up. The odds are pretty good that no Table H treasures will show up in a treasure hoard before 11th level (or later).
.

Your analysis has a few flaws
Comparing Plate to Splint +1 is as nonsensical as comparing Studded Leather armor to Leather +1. Should Studded Leather be as rare and hard to get at Leather +1? What about Padded +2?
The reality is, in just about every DnD edition, magical armor makes little sense except for the best versions. (Chainmail +1.... why?)

Second, even only counting Hoard treasure, you should have enough for Plate before 6th level. I had it at 4th level because the party chipped in. (Since not much else to spend it on.)