Player access to the Monster Manual

[the Jester]

I'm about the same as you on this one- if a pc needs the MM for something he owns, summons, or whathaveyou, okay; otherwise, stay out!

BTW- I like your new avatar, DB!

 

[Bendris Noulg]

So, how do you handle player access to the Monster Manual?

I've got two answers for you...

In my group, the book isn't touched (for me as the GM, it's the Aedon Bestiary; for me as a player in Oathbound, it's the Monster Manual, Monster Manual II, Minions, and Monsternomicon). If you have something (pet, familiar, companion) or you can summon, the information is provided. Otherwise, in-game experience or justified knowledge is key.

For a handy method that is easily justified to your players, each creature Type is associated to one of the Knowledges in the Player's Handbook. Thus, the rule I would suggest is that if they make a check with the right Knowledge, they can look up the monster in the book.

 

[shilsen]

I wouldn't let players look up hostile-monster stats during the actual encounter - that's something I've never encountered, only heard about, and frankly find unbelievable!

I'd normally be in the same camp, but recently I took a completely different route. It was an evil, planar campaign, with the players running PCs who had been part of a "special forces" unit for Bel, ruler of the first level of Hell. So according to their background, they had a lot of experience fighting other outsiders. When they were planning to ambush a few demons (they had information about what kinds), I cracked open the MM and handed it to them, telling them that since their characters had extensive knowledge of the creatures, they could check out all the abilities in preparation. Both players and PCs knew that the creatures could be advanced, templated, have class levels, etc., so it wasn't that much help, but at least they knew the basics.

Guess that's the exception that proves the rule, in my case.

 

[ph0rk]

I never let players access the MM during or after the game. If I know in advance that they have access to something from there (familiar or summoned beastie) I write out the entry for them to keep a hold of.

Given that the DM has intimate knowledge of the PCs, I don't see it as a problem.

They are just as capable of choosing not to use meta-knowledge as you are.

As for not allowing them access after the game, they can just hit a store and buy a copy, ya know

The best solution is to of course not use any of the monsters as is from the MM. The MM is a core rulebook, after all, you can't control what they buy or read when they aren't in front of you.

I wouldn't let players look up hostile-monster stats during the actual encounter - that's something I've never encountered, only heard about, and frankly find unbelievable! I also wouldn't let players flick through _other_ game books of any description during my game, other than for the purpose of checking a rule to make a tactical decision - not paying attention to the game is unbelievably impolite towards me as GM

Unless the party stays together as a group for -every- session, that is a pretty unreasonable expectation, imho.


Treating the MM like a forbidden tome will just lead to players pouring over it outside of the session (some players do that anyway, what do you do when a player has memorized the thing?) The system is more than flexible enough to adjust hit dice, add levels, templates, or even throw up illusory magic.

Enough ranks in knowledge skills is going to give the players in-game knowledge about as good as the MM anyway, so if you really want to surprise them, you'd best change the monsters around.

 

[snarfoogle]

Changing monster's appearances is an easy solution. If a kobold looks like an orc, then they're not going to know the right stats. Just ban them from looking at it in-game for non-summon/familiar purposes, and start changing stats/appearances to stop them away from the game.

 

[dreaded_beast]

BTW- I like your new avatar, DB!

Thanks! It's a self-portrait.

 

[Morpheus]

Unless I tell them otherwise, the DMG and the MM are off-limits during a game session. If a player has a familiar or is going to be summoning creatures, they should be statted up prior to the game session.

 

[MerricB]

I've just realised that this has never come up in one of my 3E sessions. My players just don't look at the MM in-game. (I wouldn't allow them to, anyway).

I do make extensive use of the Knowledge skills to feed them information about the monsters. I love that addition to the 3.5E rules. It makes the Knowledge skills really significant.

I have had players who could quote great slabs out of the MM - including the AC, Attack Bonus and Damage of a dragon I sent them up against. How do they do that? I don't have such a head for those numbers! That's just part of the game, though - they've prepared well, but in the end it will come down to the tactics I use against them and how they react.

With regard to familiars and summonable creatures, these are good things to prepare before the session.

Cheers!

 

[Gothmog]

I don't allow players to access the MM or DMG during actual gameplay. Doing so (esp for the MM) carries an XP penalty of 100 XP x the character's level. This has been made very clear to all the players, and they are cool with it. For summoned monsters, I don't allow casters to simply summon a monster from nowhere. They must first have made contact with the summoned creature, or have knowledge of its name. Therefore, any caster with summonable creatures already has them written up on notecards, and can whip them out at a moments notice.

 

[Zappo]

Like many other such possibilities, this just doesn't come up at my usual table. We are all experienced players, we play to enjoy ourselves, and we all know that looking at a monster's stats while fighting it is just not cool. Noone does it, it's that simple. If it happened, I would give the player The Stare, and he'd stop.

I use lots of advancements on my monsters anyway. It's pretty rare for me to use a monster straight out of the book, generally I'll at least change its stats a bit.