Player Dilemma

[Funeris]

Firstly how i see people in real life is completly differant to an in character representation...

Given. And, ditto.

Hyperthetical though your post was it was still based into a very real situation within some people real lives, and as such its complete nonsense... This is a fantasy environment and as such my dwarf plays his role as he see's fit. Grugni as is, is a racist towards goblinoids and I dont see how arguing this matter over and over with you is going to solve this scenario.

Grugni is a racist, yup I agree...not arguing with that. I stated it myself.
But, I guess where we differ is whether or not racism is evil. IMHO, racism is evil. I infer that from your own posts you feel this way as well...therefore...the slaughter of the goblinoids because Grugni is racist and not based on any threat posed at the dwarf, is an act of evil.

Let me ask this, How many of you have actually seen an elf or discussed with it his preferences and the same of dwarves, lemme guess none of you. Who are you to judge this character for his alleged crimes and actions towards what he see's as an inherently evil race.

Have I ever seen an elf? No, I take my medication Who am I to judge...well, as a thread posted in the General RPG Discussion forums, I guess that makes me an Enworlder. Furthermore, as an Enworlder I (and all of us) were asked our opinions. So, I judged the situation as a player of a paladin, a reader of the rules, and as a DM/GM. It is with this experience that I made my personal judgement call. It was asked for and I gave it. If I were the DM of the game, my response is how I would have handled the situation. If I were the paladin in the game, my response is again how I would have handled the situation.

As i have said earlier i do not believe Bruenor Battlehammer nor Ivan and Pikel would quibble over a couple of goblin children. In fact i seem to remember reading that Bruenor cut of a dogs leg to see if it tasted nice. evil act or not... Perhaps here we are forgetting this is fantasy and as such not real... How i react to stimuli within my real life is of course completely differant... I have no urge to go put a cap in some of the local yardie kids or to torture or mutilate animals.

First, anyone that compares their own situation to 'What would Bruenor do?' or 'What would Ivan and Pikel do?' loses points of respect in my book. But that's just my personal opinion of RA Salvatore's work. That judgement aside...

My hypothetical situation was fantasy as well (although it may be reality in some peoples' lives...a few of them I've met). And well...lets face facts here, fantasy and art are metaphors for real life. Racism is still racism, whether its real life racism or fantasy racism. Racism is evil. Your character's prejudices (while possibly justified) are still evil. And his acts...yup...still evil. Therefore, the paladin should deliver justice onto you (whether its in the form of a smiting, confinement/jail time, sensitivity training, or extraordinarily long and torturous lectures is a detail left to the paladin and his/her beliefs). That is a paladin's job.

Oh regarding the DM expressing her desire to see evil races changed, this was not brought to my attention until after the incident in question so sue me for being unaware, but again i dont really care, my argument stands....

You have a point here. The DM should have made this information known. However, your statement does not stand. Racism is still evil and thus Grugni is still evil.

As grugni would say....

" wha! they's only a couple of scrawny goblins"...

Sounds like a rationalization....at least in accordance with Ana Freud's definition.

But before i go since it seems that my laundry has bee aired let me paint a picture of this perfect group...

we have two people who act like a married couple, bikering like children over the simplest of rules one of these two is also a back seat dmer. we have the paladin who originally brought this discussion up and who claimed before the rp took to " be diplomatic and offer surrender to all before we fight" and alas he is usually up there before the dwarf regardless of the opinion of the DM without a word being spoken. We have a rogue who although incredibly agile is no real problem and acts more like a mediator and is as i like to think the king of sarcasm. and finally we have the dm who requires the use of one of your backbones...

A perfect example of a dysfunctional adventerer party..

Brother, I hear you here. Some groups are dysfunctional. That is a fact of gaming. Either you deal with it, cope, and try to cater to everyone's whims...or you get fed up and find a proper gaming group. I prefer to try the former before the latter...but I like to give people several chances...I'm not still with my first gaming group ever...it didn't work. It couldn't work. I went elsewhere...and while my current group isn't perfectly cohesive, I'm a lot happier.

Now all of these people i like and in real life i consider friends, but some of these folk have brought this down on them by starting this whole debacle...

Asking an opinion isn't a debacle. The fact that these threads always degenerate into flamewars is.

You don't like the fact i grasp the grim reality of my characters world feel free to flame this post some because i for one will not be replying to it again...

I don't mind the fact that you grasp the grim reality of your character...I love grim characters. I love grim worlds. My homebrew is grim! Racism abounds...even amongst my PCs!!! Hells, I prefer my paladins to be big drinkers and nonconformist to the overwhelming idea of what a paladin is as semi-defined by the SRD/PHB....But, they don't willingly commit Evil (that's with a capital E) acts. But Racism isn't any less evil because its a part of your worldview. And you have done nothing to persuade me that racism is not evil.

As such, I stand by my statements. As DM, I would consider Grugni evil..and have him register as such upon the old Detect Evil meter (or at the very least stepping toward an evil alignment). As the paladin player, I would administer justice. And if the paladin did not administer justice and I was DM, I'd admonish that player appropriately.

But such are just my opinions. I really don't wish to start a flame war...nor continue one that had been started.

~Fune