Player ineptness...

[Kraydak]

Ought to check for 20-sided d10s, too! I made that mistake, once...

But on the whole, this group sounds pretty sad. But there are people for whom tactics are an alien, inexplicable concept--if you've ended up with a whole group of such, D&D probably just won't make it.

But the party would win easily if they:
a) took a move action towards the nearest minion
b) launched a basic melee attack into a *random* square that did not contain a friendly.

At the level of opposition described, the problem can't be bad tactics because tactics can't get that bad.

 

[Umbran]

At the level of opposition described, the problem can't be bad tactics because tactics can't get that bad.

Yes, this is what I was trying to say, too.

I may have missed what exactly the minions were, but the non-minions were 3rd level, right? Level-appropriate minions at that level probably have ACs low enough that they can be hit straight up. The bonuses that tactics would get you shouldn't have been necessary.

 

[Pastor Dick]

*snip*
-Darkness

 

[Rel]

*snip quote*
-Darkness

You're not only really banned, you're really most sincerely banned!

 

[BradfordFerguson]

different idea

yeah, um, it sounds like you did not properly introduce the idea of 4th edition. If your group is used to playing 3rd edition, I would say that "4e plays like mid-level 3rd edition. Your characters are much more durable hence having 24 HP at 1st level instead of 4, your characters will take much more damage and dish out much more damage than what you are used to." Then I would talk about the roles in a fight, that the paladin/fighter sets the point of conflict and is expected to take most of the punishment, while the rogue flanks (or ranger/warlock attacks from range), while the wizard hampers the movement of enemies or damages multiples of them, while the cleric/warlord helps the whole group with healing, extra saving throws.

It could be possible that you are designing encounters totally wrong without communicating it right. One other DM in my area thought that you were supposed to throw 4 encounters at the PCs per level (the actual expectation is 9-10). I would also avoid combats where the PCs are surprised by the monsters until they get a hang of the system. I also agree that you should use demo characters (say that it is a "one-shot" session and encourage them to be daring and figure out ways for teamwork)

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I've had a player go through multiple combats, gripign about how bad they were doing, and at the end of the night discover that they'd been rolling a d12 the whole time....

I'm pretty sure that possibility is the only reason d12s are produced.

 

[pawsplay]

I'm not sure wiping the floor with them will work out very well,

It's always worked for me. The only player I ever lost that way, I was glad to. Usually, it's fun, a little bloody, even exciting. One or two surviving PCs stands over the flaming ruins of the battle and everyone else rolls up new characters. Usually, no second lesson is ever needed.

With my most recent group, there got to be a point where combats were just dragging on and not everyone could agree on what to do. Well, they came upon a group of ogres and decided to ambush them. "They're just ogres," became famous last words. Two ogres, two ogre barbarians from the MM, and an ogre adept killed one of the PCs and everyone took heavy damage, including the wizard. Afterwards, they worked out that they could easily have taken out the ogres if they had bothered to detect magic first, if they had even bothered to look at the ogre's equipment and guess if they were "just ogres," to have a backup plan in case the wizard got charged, and to ponder whether going to toe to toe with a fully healed, 9' tall giant was really a good idea even for a barbarian. By the numbers, it should have been a cake walk.

Not long after that, they started a long spree of attacking things out-leveled for them and winning. Most recently, they picked a fight with an ancient wyrm and managed to survive two rounds of combat and escape with no fatalities other than their henchman.

 

[blargney the second]

I'm dealing with the exact same problem with my players. Here's my most recent solution that worked quite well:

The PCs come across a veteran NPC that they know and like while he is training new members of the local militia. He gives a short lecture to the recruits on pirate/bugbear/kobold tactics and how to employ them for their own advantage. Then the trainer asks the PCs if they'd like to help out training the recruits with a little demonstration, perhaps with a friendly wager involved. If possible arrange it so that half the party will be facing off against the other half, with an even number of recruits on both sides.

During the scuffle, run the recruits yourself and have the greenies use both effective and ineffective tactics, with the trainer shouting out encouragement or insults accordingly. Holler at the PCs only when they do something good or clever.
-blarg