Hopefully this explains why this part is so important to me.
What does it mean to take on an imaginary role in a shared fiction? That's the crux of the matter. Doesn't a player who takes on an imaginary role of a specific character in a shared fiction of an RPG by necessity determine what actions said imaginary character is taking? That's what is actually meant roleplay in this context right?
It means that you take the one the role, as in you think about how to interact with the shared fiction as if you were that character within it.
No, they do not, by necessity, always determine what actions said imaginary character is taking. So long as when they have the option to make a choice they do so from within the role, this is roleplaying. When and how they get choices has nothing to do with roleplaying.
No, it is not what is actually meant [by] roleplay in this context.
If that's correct, then isn't your definition actually the same as mine? That a player determines the actions of the character he is portraying in the shared fiction?
(I suppose by actions, it's best I clarify as being attempted actions for precisions sake - I say attempted because there is often a disconnect between the players fiction and the DM's fiction which can result in a player stating his character does something that doesn't actually make sense - so the process is to then reconcile the fictions and move on with play - which can be done in a variety of ways).
Your parenthetical is an extremely narrow view of how actions can be adjudicated. This thread was started to look at multiple ways actions can be adjudicated, but here you are limiting your understanding by retaining only one of those ways -- the thin declaration.
What begs the question - what does it mean to roleplay an imaginary character in a fictional world. I say it means that you determine the characters actions in that world.
That's not what begs the question means. I say it means that, when you have the option to make choices, you do so from the role you have assumed. You're assigning a separate axis here -- what limitations exist on choice -- to roleplaying. It doesn't belong there. This is, again, your preference for how to play the game leaking into definitions that have nothing to do with that preference.
There's no way that the GM declaring actions for the PC doesn't impact what we are talking about above. It may have a minimal effect, but an effect it does have. - And more importantly, if I am right about what it means to take on an imaginary role in a fictional world, it by definition precludes the player from doing that for the period of time the GM is controlling their PC's actions.
You are not right, this is what pretty much everyone in this thread is contesting with you. Maybe pick up on that?
But, as an example, the play that [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] gave for AW -- in the fail state, the GM has carte blanche to dictate actions for the PC. This doesn't reduce the roleplaying occurring, it limits when the player can make choices. Orthogonal to roleplaying.
I'm not sure what you mean by control of PC actions in failure conditions. Maybe you can elaborate.
Sigh, it's been mentioned a number of times in this thread. If you're only going to read/engage with posts aimed at you, then I'm not going to bother to try to restate those posts you've skipped.
If your definition of taking on an imaginary role in a shared fiction is as I elaborated on above then it most definitely does impact their ability to take on an imaginary role in a shared fiction.
Don't see it. I'm still roleplaying that character just as much as I was -- I'm still representing that role within the shared fiction when I have a choice to make.
Frankly, your argument is steeped in a single-point-of-view of how RPGs are played. It shows a lack of understanding of the broader context of RPGs and the varied playstyles. It relies on a one-true-way of playing, at least if you want to be able to claim you're still roleplaying. It fails to be a practically applicable definition -- it doesn't even work within the game you prefer without using special pleading for mechanics that subvert it (ie, "magic").