Players, DMs and Save or Die

[lukelightning]

I don't mind save or die in moderation. But as a player I worry that DM fiat will nerf my SoDs.

 

[drothgery]

C'mon, Dave isn't all that bad.

I agree.

 

[Cadfan]

I'm primarily a DM and I'm against save-or-die. I have a bunch of reasons, basically amounting to a conviction that game balance can never be obtained with save-or-die spells due to the way they bypass secondary defenses, but I'll leave those out of this post. Here's just a personal anecdote.

I use spellcasters continually as bad guys, and not just as super strong big evil bad guys. For example, in a recent war campaign, every unit of 10 hobgoblin troopers was set with one spellcaster adjunct, and a commander (sometimes a spellcaster depending on unit type). I had to intentionally have all the bad guys choose sub optimal spells, because even spellcasters 5 levels lower than the party can kill off a character every couple of fights if there's enough of them.

I don't like locking bad guy spellcasters into climactic-battles-only roles. I like to have them mix it up with the party on a regular basis. The prevalence of save-or-die spells means that 1) my players automatically assume that evil spellcasters have them, which makes the player reaction a bit awkward, and 2) I have to create unrealistic spellcasters that eschew the best spells available to them for no apparent reason. I'd rather avoid this.

 

[frankthedm]

I don't mind save or die in moderation. But as a player I worry that DM fiat will nerf my SoDs.

DM really does not need to. The vast majority of monsters had ludicrous fort saves or outright immunity to SoD.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Actually, to refine my earlier position.

I am against 'save or instant death'

I am for 'save and you will die in a round or two unless someone intervenes'.

the latter gives the opportunity for dramatic last words or actions as the PC crumbles to dust/turns to stone/heart is torn away/etc, not to mention it gives other PCs the opportunity to take steps to exacerbate the situation.

Cheers

You know, exacerbate means "to make worse". I think you meant alleviate or ameliorate.

PC 1: Help me! I'm turning to stone
PC 2: *Stab*
PC 1: Argh!
PC 3: What did you do that for?
PC 2: Now he's not turning to stone anymore.

 

[Remathilis]

I've edited the poll so that option 5 is player and DM who SUPPORTS save or die (which is logically what I think you wanted that to be)

Cheers

and thats what you get for posting a poll 5 minutes before class starts...

 

[RandomCitizenX]

As a DM I hate using SoD against my players. It feels heavy handed and robs characters of the chance to put up the good fight. I also dislike SoD when used against storyline important NPC's. I do like the SoPut on a Timer, effect that were spoken of earlier. But stright out "I rolled low so I drop dead" is right out in my book.

 

[Remathilis]

Totally up the pro/con camps as off 12:03 EST on 10/23

Pro: ~33%
Con: ~66%

(not accounting for all decimal percentages, just rough math)

Thats a 2/3rds which dislike SoD.

Interestingly, I expected more "DM only" to be pro SoD, while more "Player Only" to be anti-SoD. It seems the anti-sentiment is strong among both camps however.

 

[Plane Sailing]

You know, exacerbate means "to make worse". I think you meant alleviate or ameliorate.

No, no, I really meant stabbing your allies. Really.

Cheers

 

[Raven Crowking]

Interestingly, I expected more "DM only" to be pro SoD, while more "Player Only" to be anti-SoD. It seems the anti-sentiment is strong among both camps however.

What made you stick this in the 4e forum, anyway?

RC