Player's Guides - why?

[Sir Whiskers]

Having seen a number of "Player's" guides come out, including a couple recent ones (Gamma World and Wilderlands), I have to ask: what are they for? I'm not being sarcastic and I don't mean to sound rude, but I just can't figure what use they are.

Note: PG (Player's Guide)
GG (Gamemaster's Guide)

Some possibilities:

1. The GM is intended to get the "Gamemaster's" guide and other supplements (which always seem to come out after the PG), while his/her players should get the PG. The problem is why would I, as a player, get the PG before I know my GM is actually going to run a campaign using it? Also, since every campaign is different, how much info in the PG would be wrong (at least for my GM's campaign)? Besides, how many players actually go out and buy stuff for their GM's campaign?

2. The GM is supposed to buy the "Player's" guide, which has information on the campaign/rules system/whatever which won't be in the "Gamemaster's" guide. Call me simple, but if the info is intended for the GM, it should be in the GG, not the PG.

3. Perhaps the intent is to separate out some rules, so that the GM can hand his players one book without having to say "Rules for creating characters are in chapters one to three, but don't you dare look in chapter six!". But if that's so, why do PG's cover so much extra material, which seems more oriented to a specific campaign (names and descriptions of major locations, history, timelines, pantheons, etc)? That info may or may not be correct for any given campaign. So instead of telling my players not to read certain sections because I don't want to give away secrets, I have to tell them to ignore certain sections because they don't apply - doesn't seem like much of an improvement to me.

Since these things seem to sell well, I assume they have some value to consumers, but I just can't figure it out. It almost feels like the purpose of a PG is get people excited about a product line, so GM's will buy the other items.

Comments?

 

[Ranger REG]

I honestly don't know except to prepare a pretty persuasive case to the DM about allowing new things from said player's guide. Otherwise, PG should just offer tips on better use of existing rules.

 

[trancejeremy]

Well, they want to sell to players. Players are a much much much bigger market than GMs.

That is part of the reason adventures sell so poorly - only GMs buy them.

 

[Paradigm]

Having seen a number of "Player's" guides come out, including a couple recent ones (Gamma World and Wilderlands), I have to ask: what are they for? I'm not being sarcastic and I don't mean to sound rude, but I just can't figure what use they are.

I can only speak for our Player's Guide, but it is basically an extensive body of information relelvant to playing a character from Arcanis. Race information, Class information, feats, spells, religion, domains, national outlooks, etc. It isn't a product we expected to make 2 years ago, but the questions from the players of our Living Campaign have added up to where we are going to give insight to what it means to come from one of the nations of Arcanis.

 

[malladin]

I personaly like the way White Wolf did the WoD books:

Core Rulebook (for everyone)
Player's Guide (lots of new game stuff for the players)
GM's Book (lots of nasty secrets to really scare yor players with)

That way you don't get the situation where people need to buy the player's guide before they know whether they're going to play the game or not. The core rulebook covers the basics and if the players get going on the game and want new stuff they can buy the player's guide, etc, etc.

I also like the idea of combined resources: A supplement that combines adventure, player crunch, GM secrets and setting information in one supplement. This should mean there's something for everyone. I don't really know anyone who has done this yet (but am willing to have something be pointed out to me if there is). The closest I can think of is WW again, with teh expansion supplements thay did for Trinity.

Cheerio,

Ben

 

[Orcus]

'Cause I didnt want to call it the Wilderlands Gazetteer.

Why? Because "Gazetteer" says "dont buy me because I will immediately be superceded by a more detailed hardback setting book." Think about it--every "Gaz" (Greyhawk, Scarred Lands, etc) was basically rendered mostly useless when the setting book came out.

The Player's Guide to the Wilderlands is made to be used in conjunction with and not superced by the setting Boxed Set. It has the character creation rules, the new races and classes, the "Gaz" material summarizing the cities and geographic locations in broad strokes, the gods, the monsters, etc. It also was designed to give a "primer" for people who are new to the setting as well as provide a general 3.5 update for the grognards who are still running an old 1E version of the setting and dont really want to re-purchase the whole setting Boxed Set and just want the 3.5 stuff.

It isnt so much about selling to players, but that would be nice. Like with most setting books, I really expect just DMs to buy them. But with the PG, this is a book that the players could buy and the DM wouldnt care about it at all and might encourage it.

Clark

 

[malladin]

The Player's Guide to the Wilderlands is made to be used in conjunction with and not superced by the setting Boxed Set. It has the character creation rules, the new races and classes, the "Gaz" material summarizing the cities and geographic locations in broad strokes, the gods, the monsters, etc. It also was designed to give a "primer" for people who are new to the setting

That's the kind of idea that we had with the DarkLore Campaign Primer, but due to our writing resources as a humble pdf publisher with 2 part time writers, we're never going to be able to do a boxed set or hardback, hence we're dividing out the extra resources that you might find in the core rulebook over our expansion supplements.

Cheerio,

Ben

 

[Cergorach]

It isn't that different from the Core books, Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master Guide. The DM can't do much without the PHB, there's even some useful info in the DMG for players.

This is what we call 'muggeziften', don't do it.

 

[Ranger REG]

I personaly like the way White Wolf did the WoD books:

Core Rulebook (for everyone)
Player's Guide (lots of new game stuff for the players)
GM's Book (lots of nasty secrets to really scare yor players with)

That way you don't get the situation where people need to buy the player's guide before they know whether they're going to play the game or not. The core rulebook covers the basics and if the players get going on the game and want new stuff they can buy the player's guide, etc, etc.

Even I'm wary of a player's guide offering new stuff to the players that the GM doesn't know about it, unless it is also included in the GM's book (with said nasty secrets to counter the new stuff, if need be).

Otherwise, it is unfortunate that the GM is pressured to have all three products.

 

[malladin]

Even I'm wary of a player's guide offering new stuff to the players that the GM doesn't know about it, unless it is also included in the GM's book (with said nasty secrets to counter the new stuff, if need be).

Otherwise, it is unfortunate that the GM is pressured to have all three products.

That's a good point. I guess I'm the kind of person who buys everything in a line anyway. As a GM and a writer myself, if there's a game setting that I think is so good that I'd play it ahead of any that I might make up for myself, I'm sure as hell going to be a complete fanboy for it and buy the whole lot. So far I've only had Trinity that I've done this for. I think if I'd ran Vampire for any decent length of time rather than just playing it I might have gone the same way with that.

Cheerio,

Ben