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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6331942" data-attributes="member: 2067">(SEE: 2e)Also, the Charisma penalty never bothered me much. I see the counterpoint, but I also see that if you're excluded and shunned and smell of brimstone and have a rough childhood because of your cloven hooves that it makes sense that you'd be a little less able to invoke that charm and authority. Still, I've also got no real problems with a Charisma bonus. That works for me, too. Yeah, I didn't have a problem with this in 3e, either. They're tainted by the lower planes and shunned by society, &quot;evil&quot; makes sense because most tieflings would easily fall in with the wrong crowd and seek power over those that exclude them. Evil comes more easily, it's an easy default. Not that it was inherent or automatic (hence &quot;usually&quot;), not that it wasn't something an individual PC could defy (&quot;I will not be what you think I am&quot;).To me, all that fit the narrative.&quot;My ancestors made a pact with the devil(s)&quot; didn't. Well, okay, it could have been one variation on the old narrative. I mean, it's a perfectly FINE story, it's just not the story I was looking to explore with tieflings.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6331942, member: 2067"] (SEE: 2e) Also, the Charisma penalty never bothered me much. I see the counterpoint, but I also see that if you're excluded and shunned and smell of brimstone and have a rough childhood because of your cloven hooves that it makes sense that you'd be a little less able to invoke that charm and authority. Still, I've also got no real problems with a Charisma bonus. That works for me, too. Yeah, I didn't have a problem with this in 3e, either. They're tainted by the lower planes and shunned by society, "evil" makes sense because most tieflings would easily fall in with the wrong crowd and seek power over those that exclude them. Evil comes more easily, it's an easy default. Not that it was inherent or automatic (hence "usually"), not that it wasn't something an individual PC could defy ("I will not be what you think I am"). To me, all that fit the narrative. "My ancestors made a pact with the devil(s)" didn't. Well, okay, it could have been one variation on the old narrative. I mean, it's a perfectly FINE story, it's just not the story I was looking to explore with tieflings. [/QUOTE]

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