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<blockquote data-quote="Phazonfish" data-source="post: 7291643" data-attributes="member: 6855766"><p>Indeed, and just because a person is trustworthy in general, does not mean they are trustworthy in every situation under the sun.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I said every "decision" is dubious. The response of yours that I said was healthy was to not make a decision at all (by letting the DM do it for you).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Nope, see above.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Giving a case for "if I had decided" in a scenario where this occurs 0% of the time (because you were not given a decision to make yet) implies you thought it was necessary to do so, which it is not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is a fair deal of truth to this, but it's foolish to think that the rules play no part at all in it. Sure, such a conflict between players (including both PCs and DMs) may exist regardless of the rules, but the system in place often determines whether such conflicts are dredged up or swept under the rug.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's true, and I'm sure more people would except those acknowledgements if you didn't tend imply in the same breath that those that don't like this approach has trust issues.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I know what it means to presume competence, and I know the result I gave is nonsense and crap; that was the point. If you take this concept and misapply it you get said nonsense.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Once again, your taking an analogy literally, hence the words "in a manner". I didn't take it as an apology. My point is people aren't going to take any of your attempts to agree to disagree seriously if you go out of your way to make them sound as insincere and insulting as possible.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Or we could sidestep the whole issue by not self-assigning roles. As you say this won't prevent all conflicts, but we're not talking about those (or so the title of the thread tells me)</p><p></p><p></p><p>You're absolutely correct here. In an earlier post I stated that the first thing you should do is discuss this with your players. The game mechanics being discussed are what to do when they refuse to heed the DMs request but also refuse to walk away from the table, and even then this only a discussion of mechanics because you have to resolve the check somehow.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Phazonfish, post: 7291643, member: 6855766"] Indeed, and just because a person is trustworthy in general, does not mean they are trustworthy in every situation under the sun. I said every "decision" is dubious. The response of yours that I said was healthy was to not make a decision at all (by letting the DM do it for you). Nope, see above. Giving a case for "if I had decided" in a scenario where this occurs 0% of the time (because you were not given a decision to make yet) implies you thought it was necessary to do so, which it is not. There is a fair deal of truth to this, but it's foolish to think that the rules play no part at all in it. Sure, such a conflict between players (including both PCs and DMs) may exist regardless of the rules, but the system in place often determines whether such conflicts are dredged up or swept under the rug. That's true, and I'm sure more people would except those acknowledgements if you didn't tend imply in the same breath that those that don't like this approach has trust issues. I know what it means to presume competence, and I know the result I gave is nonsense and crap; that was the point. If you take this concept and misapply it you get said nonsense. Once again, your taking an analogy literally, hence the words "in a manner". I didn't take it as an apology. My point is people aren't going to take any of your attempts to agree to disagree seriously if you go out of your way to make them sound as insincere and insulting as possible. Or we could sidestep the whole issue by not self-assigning roles. As you say this won't prevent all conflicts, but we're not talking about those (or so the title of the thread tells me) You're absolutely correct here. In an earlier post I stated that the first thing you should do is discuss this with your players. The game mechanics being discussed are what to do when they refuse to heed the DMs request but also refuse to walk away from the table, and even then this only a discussion of mechanics because you have to resolve the check somehow. [/QUOTE]
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