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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7292029" data-attributes="member: 29398">And here the failure is obvious and should thusly be narrated to all - including you.However, if your failure in the same situation is due to your concealment simply not being as good as you think it is, or your shadow giving your position away, or some other similar thing, then you've every reason to believe you've succeeded until the Orcs' actions inform you otherwise.Perhaps...but this is an example where the results of your attempt (and thus, the roll) are going to be rather quickly obvious to all.But what about situations where the results - or the reasons for such - are not obvious?  Consider the difference between how a player (and, let's face it, most players) would react to:Player: "I carefully search the south wall for secret doors. <DM nods, and player rolls a d20> I roll a 20."DM: "Your search turns up nothing."vs.Player: "I carefully search the south wall for secret doors. <DM nods, and player rolls a d20> I roll a 3."DM: "Your search turns up nothing."Yet from the character's point of view (and by extension, the player's)there is not and should not be any difference whatsoever.  The character has no idea why she failed, only that she did her best searching and found nothing; and as player knowledge should equal character knowledge where possible, this is one where the DM ought to be secretly rolling instead of the player.Lanefan</blockquote>