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Message: <blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7292222" data-attributes="member: 6919838">Thanks for all the narrative flourishes for where i simply put "narrative narrative" and thanks for the final answer... 100%See you describe a perfect scene and actually you did not answer the question to the player at all - you provided a different answer - yes they succeeded at doing the physical actions and they saw stuff...  but now its up to them to decide if they think that means there are any secret doors or not.Huh? You answered what his confidence in his test result was, not anything at all with how confident his character is that make means anything about a secret door. Right? those are two different things.You get that right?It would seem the CHARACTER has no clue whether or not there is a secret door, but is pretty sure there are no seams but hey whether or not those two have anything to do with each other is "mysteryland" and GMs property.Do you also do that in combat? They say they swing their axe blah blah and you describe whether or not they succeded and they are then left to themselves to determine if they actually hit or scored "damage" or "wore down the enemy"?Are the NPCs also left in the dark as to whether or not the seam-knife-mortar trick is reliable or not?Of course, lets point to an actual facet of old style constructions... practically speaking... many if not most if not all of them are drafty and many if not most tho not all are with cracking mortar here and there which is why "found no drafts" and "no seams" not so likely to produce quite so absolute a result. leaving the PLAYER to determine the test to be done AND interpret the test results after the GM delivers the info and having the ability-proficiency only cover "did you run the test right" is a very, to me, minimal empowerment of the value of the ability and the skill.So, how would you deal with a player who responds "so, i myself don't know squat about masonry and secret door construction but my character is supposed to be good at this stuff by the background we agreed on and stats we agreed on so... so...   so, what does this mean to my character?" Unless the PLAYER is a mason or someone familiar with secret door construction in real life, how do they know what the odds that "lack of  a seam showing with a knife edge" and derive that to reach a conclusion?</blockquote>

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