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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7293989" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>Scenes that do not have challenges aren't really worth time to play out, are they? Do you often have zero conflict scenes? What happens in those scenes?</p><p></p><p>Well, that's a relief! I thought I might be the only one that didn't see this in my head as if it is a module for points and this is a "if this then xp" type puzzle.</p><p></p><p>I'm glad there are at least two of us. Anyone else on this train? </p><p></p><p></p><p>Me, too! This is uncanny!</p><p></p><p>You know, I was just thinking that I was the only person that might accept the players giving something dangerous or unknown a wide berth. I was afraid that you might actually force them to interact with it and not give them a choice in the matter. Imagine how embarrassed I am right now, since you've put that to bed. Gosh, I feel bad for assuming that you'd not allow your players to avoid things like this. Very sorry.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I... I don't know what you mean by this. It's just over my head. I mean, I understand looking at things in a practical bent, but I'm not sure which path we're going down. Are there ponies?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Holy cow! I thought I was the only one that.... you know what, I'm a bit tired of the 'sarcastically point out the strawman' game, so i'm going to stop. Apologies.</p><p></p><p>Nothing in my method prevents players from doing surprising things. Actually, I find it happens even more often now that I ask for intent and approach up front. I've been known to change something on the fly because a stated approach and goal implicates a situation way cooler than the one I had thought of. I'm not more creative than the sum of my players, and I'm not prideful enough to not steal wantonly from their best ideas. I <em>play </em>for the surprising outcomes.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not just indie games. Are you now saying that you actually play a story-first style game where players have narrative control, that announcing "I roll an Insight 30" means your player gets to now author something up to an insight 30 worth of things? You clearly aren't playing that style of game, and, yes, having played those games before I'm quite familiar with the concepts. Those games require a stated goal before a roll, so it's not 'I roll search, do I find something" its "I search for a secret door on the West wall leveraging (insert character appropriate move or trait here), <clatter>, success!" Then the GM narrates the finding of a secret door. On a failure, the GM has other options, including the finding of a secret door that opens to bad guys in ambush. So, still not declare rolls without clearly stated objectives and methods.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, well, not one that supports your arguments, really. Pointing out that something you don't play has a feature that works in a way that isn't what your advocating is rarely a compelling argument.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7293989, member: 16814"] Scenes that do not have challenges aren't really worth time to play out, are they? Do you often have zero conflict scenes? What happens in those scenes? Well, that's a relief! I thought I might be the only one that didn't see this in my head as if it is a module for points and this is a "if this then xp" type puzzle. I'm glad there are at least two of us. Anyone else on this train? Me, too! This is uncanny! You know, I was just thinking that I was the only person that might accept the players giving something dangerous or unknown a wide berth. I was afraid that you might actually force them to interact with it and not give them a choice in the matter. Imagine how embarrassed I am right now, since you've put that to bed. Gosh, I feel bad for assuming that you'd not allow your players to avoid things like this. Very sorry. I... I don't know what you mean by this. It's just over my head. I mean, I understand looking at things in a practical bent, but I'm not sure which path we're going down. Are there ponies? Holy cow! I thought I was the only one that.... you know what, I'm a bit tired of the 'sarcastically point out the strawman' game, so i'm going to stop. Apologies. Nothing in my method prevents players from doing surprising things. Actually, I find it happens even more often now that I ask for intent and approach up front. I've been known to change something on the fly because a stated approach and goal implicates a situation way cooler than the one I had thought of. I'm not more creative than the sum of my players, and I'm not prideful enough to not steal wantonly from their best ideas. I [I]play [/I]for the surprising outcomes. It's not just indie games. Are you now saying that you actually play a story-first style game where players have narrative control, that announcing "I roll an Insight 30" means your player gets to now author something up to an insight 30 worth of things? You clearly aren't playing that style of game, and, yes, having played those games before I'm quite familiar with the concepts. Those games require a stated goal before a roll, so it's not 'I roll search, do I find something" its "I search for a secret door on the West wall leveraging (insert character appropriate move or trait here), <clatter>, success!" Then the GM narrates the finding of a secret door. On a failure, the GM has other options, including the finding of a secret door that opens to bad guys in ambush. So, still not declare rolls without clearly stated objectives and methods. Yes, well, not one that supports your arguments, really. Pointing out that something you don't play has a feature that works in a way that isn't what your advocating is rarely a compelling argument. [/QUOTE]
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