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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7300009" data-attributes="member: 6880599">"If the players describe looking under the box, there is no chance they will not find the McGuffin. If they do not look under the box, there is no chance they will find the McGuffin." So the player builds a high intellect  character with investigation skills and because the player does not know how to investigate you make them fail "based on the quality of the player's description." Your example proves the point of people in your first paragraph. Player rolls to investigate a room with a single box in it on the floor, player has a passive investigate of 15 for a box that should easily be a 5 role to see so their is no reason his character would ever not look under the box but be cause of the 1 maybe he checked behind the door first and finds a cracked wall, while investigation he pulls a rock causing one to from above to fall and hit him on the head, he takes one point of damage and is distracted long enough that he forgets about the box in the middle of the room and ends his search per-maturely.If the princess is gay and the role a natural 20, the player would not seduce her but he might still win her affection and admiration as a friend where she may clarify she is gay and possible provide him with favor or direction to her strait friend, or maybe she is gay bi-curious this once but and gives him a try, then says no, I am gay but it was fun to try once. The pretense that the goal is impossible exactly the limitation of play I suggested about GMs telling their own story and railroading the players. Letting the players try the impossible allows the GM to be surprised. Omitting things as impossible and removing even the attempt punishes players for trying to be part of the world. If you do that you train your players no sit and listen to your story and not actually play. Then when you ask them "what to you want to do?" the only thing they look to do is follow your instructions as GM because nothing else ever works. I have seen these awkward games happen. Railroading through player discipline for even attempting feats. I want to try and convince the princes.. no she hates you, you fail... ... Might as well say shut up player did I say you could speech! No I didn't you can roll when its my command not before.It is never good to teach players they can't role play in a role playing game and that is what auto fail is. Just because they role doesn't mean they get what they want even with a 20 or that they fail with 1 but it lets the player dictate some story and be part of the game instead of just and observer.</blockquote>

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