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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7300572" data-attributes="member: 6779196">Another pattern I've noticed in this discussion. The player-assigned-rolls camp tends to frame actions in terms of what checks are being made, for which auto success and auto failure might be ways of resolving the checks, depending on the circumstances. The action-and-approach-determines-results camp tends to frame actions in terms of the player's input and the logical outcomes of those input, and checks as a means of resolving uncertainty in the outcome.This is one of the places we're talking past each other. I think some of us are thinking in terms of "there is a hidden object, therefore a check is required to find it, and here are the ways a player can earn automatic success or failure on that check." Under that assumption, it is understandable that one might view another DM using the player's declared action as the primary means of determining the action's success or failure as being overly focused on precise wording. But this is not how those of us who use a player's declared action as the primary means of determining success and failure are approaching the situation where there is an object hidden in the room. A check is not assumed, and auto success and auto failure are not things you earn on that check based on how you phrase your action. There is an object hidden in the room, and there are many ways it might be found. A player can describe how they are going about trying to find the hidden object, and the result will be what ever is the most logical outcome of that action. If the most logical outcome of that action is not obvious to the DM, then and only then is a check made.This is one of the main reasons I prefer the goal-and-approach method. I prefer description, rather than Skills, to be the players' primary means of interfacing with the game world, and for dice to be a tool for resolving actions that do not have otherwise obvious outcomes, rather than the primary determining factor of success and failure, which can be bypassed under the right conditions.</blockquote>

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