Playing cross-gender PCs

[sniffles]

Wow!! It's interesting that what I perceived as a pretty innocuous question when I started reading this thread almost turned into a flame war.

I'd like to offer up my group as an example of what I think is a nice attitude. The group is predominantly male. However, all but two of the regular players have run female PCs on more than one occasion. I am female and have run a couple of male PCs. In one current campaign, I am running a male character while my fiancee is running a female.

No one in our group questions what gender anyone else chooses to play. If one is more comfortable playing one's own gender, well and good. If one thinks one's character ought to be of opposite gender, well and good. We also have some interparty romances going on - in one instance my fiancee's female character is having a romance with another (male) player's male PC. I have no objection to this.

The primary purpose of roleplaying for us is fun, and fun involves getting to do what you want within the rules of the game. It's fun to pretend to be somebody else. Most of us would not play our characters any differently regardless of gender. We don't focus a lot on gender issues, because for us it's fun to play in a world where gender is not an issue.

When I create a character I find myself drawn to a particular gender for reasons that are hard to define. The male characters had to be male, though I couldn't really tell you why. For the most part I feel comfortable playing females because I know what it's like to be a woman. But it's nice to know I'm not tied to that.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Here are some character concepts that can only be played with female characters (some are setting-specific):

Unicorn Rider, Aes Sedai/Wise One/Windfinder (Wheel of Time d20), Swanmay, Amazon, Hag, Nymph, Harpy, Dryad, Sylph, Valkyrie, Drow Matron (assuming the usual female-dominant convention for drow), Nun, Elemental Weird, Mother

I'm sure that there are others out there. Perhaps the best one for a thought exercise is the WoT d20 example: Would those of you who ban cross-gender characters disallow me an Aes Sedai aspirant character, enforcing masculinity and thus effectively dooming me to insanity if I wanted to play a spellcaster. And "I don't play WoT d20" is just avoiding the question, since I don't play it either.

 

[der_kluge]

This is how I've responded to this question in the past.

That is incredibly well written. It covered some of the concepts I was trying to convey, but so much better. It should be required reading. Thanks for that.

 

[der_kluge]

Here are some character concepts that can only be played with female characters (some are setting-specific):

Unicorn Rider, Aes Sedai/Wise One/Windfinder (Wheel of Time d20), Swanmay, Amazon, Hag, Nymph, Harpy, Dryad, Sylph, Valkyrie, Drow Matron (assuming the usual female-dominant convention for drow), Nun, Elemental Weird, Mother

I'm sure that there are others out there. Perhaps the best one for a thought exercise is the WoT d20 example: Would those of you who ban cross-gender characters disallow me an Aes Sedai aspirant character, enforcing masculinity and thus effectively dooming me to insanity if I wanted to play a spellcaster. And "I don't play WoT d20" is just avoiding the question, since I don't play it either.

Interludes: Brief Expeditions to Bluffside had a PrC "Sisters of Mercy" that was for females only. I'm sure there are others.

 

[der_kluge]

Okay. I'll just flat out say it. I like to play female characters because I wish sometimes that I were female. Which is not to say I'm gay - if I were female, I'd be a lesbian. Women, in my experience, make up the best and the worst people can be, the most beautiful and the ugliest, the most divine and the dag-nastiest evil - and sometimes, that is the same woman, at different times of the day. They are interesting. With rare exceptions, mostly to the negative, guys are boring for being guys. They may be interesting for their place in life, for being President or Pope, for example - but a female President or Pope would be more interesting. She'd have the interesting office, AND she'd be female.

Torm, thanks for that insightful response. I'm going to do my best to touch on some topics that you've raised. Around me are eggshells, so I have to tread carefully, for numerous reasons!

First off, a funny story. My friend used to talk about an episode of Springer where one of the guests, a man, had a sex change to become a women, and then promptly announced that he was a lesbian. "So, you could have had sex with women as a man, why did you need to become a woman to do that?" "I see myself as a lesbian." Was his response. Classic. So, for this guy, "being a lesbian" was more than just about the sex. It was the whole package deal. I think that's important.

Another anecdote. My exchange student from Yugoslavia (or what was Yugoslavia) had a sister, who was chatting online with some older guy. And this guy had apparently developed a crush on my exchange student's sister. My exchange student, Sasa (a "he"), commented that his sister had taken to like this older guy because of a comment he made in a message board. When I asked him what it was that he said, he stumbled. With english as his second language, he was struggling to find the words. He started out, "well, this guy commented that he thought women were the better species. That they were more beautiful, and ..." and he couldn't find the words. He didn't need to. I understood.

I think you understand as well.

I think you seeing yourself as a lesbian just shows that you're not homosexual. I find myself infinitely attracted to women in ways that mere words can't convey. I love looking at them, admiring them from a distance. I believe that's only natural.

For women, what attracts them to a particular man is hard to convey. I think women often have a hard time conveying what it is about a specific guy that they find attractive. While I can go down a list of celebrities that I'd love to "do", my wife couldn't even name me the first one. Not all women are like that, but for women, it's the entire package that they buy into. I find men to be more shallow, at least initially.


I told my wife when she was pregnant that I was jealous. I could never understand the magnificence of having a living, breathing creature inside me, which I was solely responsible for, giving life to, and nurturing. She thought I was kidding. I wasn't. I think it's a beautiful thing for a woman to be who they are, and I respect and admire women for their beautiful complexity. I think it's a noble goal of a man to want to be like a woman. I believe that if more men were more like women this world would be a better place.

I can understand some people might not like it if someone is playing a woman as a caricature or just flat WRONG, but they would have the same issue with someone playing a rapping Dwarf in the Forgotten Realms named Eminem, wouldn't they? Is this really about gender? Or is it about bad roleplaying?

You know, it's only natural that the older I become, the more people I meet. And it's not surprising that some women annoy me just as some men have. I don't quite understand people's complaints about "slutty" women, because frankly, I've met a couple. Now, in RL, I don't like them. Just ask my wife about "Jenny". The stories my wife tells about her would make you think some 14 year old kid was role-playing her in a game of FATAL. Or my ex-roommates girlfriend, the bi-sexual Jehovah's Witness. If I actually tried to make a character modeled after her, most people I game with would think I was crazy. It's a real person, and yes, she was cooky. Friggin' hot, but cooky. So, I find a bit of double-standard with regards to the roles that people consider "acceptable" in a game, even though in real life, there are far, far more.

In the end, I think it boils down to what works in the game. Kind of like letting someone play a xaositect in your Planescape game. In the end, it's just going to be a bad idea.

Thanks for your post.

 

[BlackSilver]

Or if you take so much offense from other people's positions on this question that you need to make this "observation" in the first place.

I have.

A couple weeks back my girlfriend and I were attacked. Apparently the attack occurred because she had denied one of them- “the chance to get to know him.”

During the attack I was beaten into unconsciousness, bones were broken- I was lucky however, none of the injuries were long lasting (a few months of rehab I should be fine, the Doctors have told me).

Some how my parents heard about the attack and they came to see me- it’s the first time I have seen them in eight years. It turned bad, as I knew it would. They have a problem with my life. They think that I should be someone that I am not. They left, much to our relief, and once again I have no family beyond my friends.

I come home, try to get back into work, talk to friends, catch up on my campaigns and dive back into ENWorld and I see this hatred flying about on two threads.

And, I want to hate.

I so want to hate those that can’t accept that some people aren’t what they appear to be, or that they are who they appear to be and just like or want to role play something they are not. It is my guess that only a few of these Players that play cross gender characters are actually cross dressing or wishing they were actually the other gender. I think it’s more that they just want to play a different person then they are and they are reaching across any boarders they can reach across.

A few days back I nearly died and the girl I love was almost raped by men that hated, that feared her for what she is and what I am.

Stop the cycle; accept people for who they are. If someone wants to play a certain type of character then let them, if you can’t accept that they might be just stretching their wings a bit then maybe you are just a short step from going out with a base ball bat and beating a couple of women.

There is a lot of assumption here in my writing, that people hate or dislike these people that want to play the cross gender characters, that is not the case. I see where these comments can lead. Find the faith in your friends and in your heart to let people be. Please, it can’t hurt you to play another gender, you are only playing, and you aren’t going to magically become this person.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

Well this and the other thread were very entertaining (read as much sarcasm as you want into that statement- I doubt it was enough).

[blah-blah-blah]

If you can’t accept people described in the above then… well, get involved in a hate group and leave true role players alone.

I know what it looks like to me- these people that object to someone playing a different gender, it looks like they have some major insecurity in their own sexuality.

Perhaps you should do some soul searching if you take offense to this observation.

This is not the place to peddle your socio-psychological nonsense.

 

[fusangite]

BlackSilver,

What I cannot stand in life is people who use their victim status as a club with which to beat and oppress others. People like you are the reason that while I continue to be a leftist, I can no longer be active in left-wing politics.

Your post disgusts me. It effectively says: "If you don't agree with me, you are complicit in the assault on me and the attempted rape of my girlfriend." The first time you announced on a nearby thread that you were planning to leave ENWorld because of "all the hate," I was tempted to write urging you to say but after this latest piece of offensive trash, all I have to say is good riddance and get on with it.

Me not wanting to allow men to play women in my game has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your girlfriend nearly being raped. It has nothing to do with me being a homophobe -- 3 of the 7 players in my last campaign were gay. I have seen some pretty low and disgusting posts on ENWorld but yours takes the cake. You should be ashamed.'

Go away.

 

[Harmon]

wow- what a homophobic , your desire to spread the hate fusangite and Brennin Magalus, quite clear that says more then a world about you.

Its to bad that the Mod in EN can't see that they have let the hate flow for so long that its getting beyond conversation.

Silver's point (I think) is that hate starts in places where you are right now, and it grows into something bigger, something that becomes two women being beaten. You lack that understanding, you lack that fore sight.

Good luck guys you are pilars of the community.

 

[Torm]

You're right, Fusangite - Blacksilver seems completely out of line.

That said, you and Brennin could have some sympathy - it seems that she (?) has been through a good bit lately in an environment that would make her (?) paranoid, to say the least. :\

Blacksilver - one time, about a year and a half ago, I was confronted with the threat of violence by a black man in a local Wal-Mart. I had done nothing to him, and took every step available to me to make whatever he had perceived as a slight to him (still not clear on that) right, but I could tell that he hated me and wanted the fight, and it was because I am white. THAT made me angry and a little paranoid, and made me look at black people in general a little sideways for a couple of weeks. But I knew better. And I had the good sense to keep my mouth shut during that period.

My point being - wait until you've let the anger go, before you say things that make things worse than they really are. There ARE valid reasons for not wanting people to roleplay across gender\sexual preference - and some of them are actually in DEFENSE of the respectability of those genders or preferences. I personally don't have a problem AT ALL with people playing across those lines, but I don't automatically think people who do are evil bigots. Think about it.