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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9080134" data-attributes="member: 6801228">So, the difference between and optimized monk and a non-optimized character is smaller than between an optimized monk and an optimized character. I am shook. I had no idea. Next you will tell me that a 9th level character is stronger than a 3rd level character.Paladin nova was something EVERYONE had problems competing against. But again, you are the ONLY person talking about the 2014 Paladin Nova. No one else has even bothered to talk about it, because it is a non-factor in our discussion. All the presented numbers are non-Nova numbers. Yes, if we used the Nova numbers the gap would be bigger, but that isn't the gap we are talking about.Sure, so optimizers are doing less, but NON-optimizers are doing more. And hey, the monk is doing worse against BOTH of them anyways.And if this was what we were talking about, a bleeding edge DPR compared to the monk, you would have a point. But a Glory Paladin dual-wielding battleaxes ALSO was outperforming the monk. So who cares about the top tiers, we aren't even trying to get the monk TO that point. Let's go over it again. Levels 1 - 4: Monk damage is good, because they can make more attacks than anyone. However, they don't feel like monks because their ki is too low and they also suffer from low defenses which make it difficult for them to perform their role. Levels 5 - 7: Monk damage is okay, but falling off. Ki and defenses still a problem. Levels 8 through 10: Monk Damage is at least not bad, and Ki is less of a problem, but still scarce. Defenses still a struggle if in melee. 11 through 20: Monks finally get some defensive abilities, but their damage is laughable compared to basically everyone else. And this isn't comparing them to bleeding edge optimization builds. This is just... basic stuff.</blockquote>

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