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Message: <blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9216150" data-attributes="member: 6877472">I mean, let's look at Fireball at level 11 by itself.  Without upcasting, it's 28 damage on average (14 on a save).  Upcasted to level 6 (if one were inclined to do such a thing) brings that up to 38.5 (19 on a save).  So at first blush, the area and damage might seem pretty good for the 4 Elements Monk- though at it's 2014 cost of 4 ki, that's certainly debatable, especially since the Monk can't upcast it to level 6 but only level 4 (at a cost of 5 ki).Actual spellcasters might stop stocking it entirely at this point.  As a point of reference, I looked at the SRD CR 11 foes (I know level 11 ~ CR 11, but it's certainly something you could be fighting well before this point).Of the 7 monsters presented, the Efreeti, the Horned Devil, and the Remorhaz are simply immune to Fireball.  The average hit points of the remaining 4 is 178.25, with the Gynosphinx and the Roc being the extreme ends of the spectrum.Even with better ki costs in 2024 (most likely), Fireball doesn't have a huge impact against these foes.  It might be a huge spike in damage for the Monk, but it's costly and potentially difficult to use in some fights (as it is for anyone who uses it).Personally, I'm on the fence.  My Wizard rarely uses Fireball at level 7, though I have been facing devils and magic resistant foes lately, so that likely colors my perception.  In the games I've played, I wouldn't be thrilled with Fireball at level 11- even if it's something I wouldn't normally have access to.But on the other hand, it could be campaign dependent.  Big areas with weaker foes who aren't fireproof?  Being able to Fireball once or twice a battle might be decent, especially if you can nap for an hour to regain it (though at the cost of other cool things you might wish to do). The gripping hand, well, I've seen a Fireball fail to kill a CR 1 Bugbear who failed his save,  That doesn't mean it won't have a big impact on weaker foes, and it's not like non-casters often get any area effect abilities.  But it does mean that it's likely going to be an option that isn't used all that regularly.</blockquote>

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