D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Spell Discussion

[Neonchameleon]

It's one of their biggest post-3E improvements (no idea if it was in 4E). They should definitely double down on it.

4e didn't work that way. It's just one of the ways that 5e casting bears more resemblance to 3.X psionics than it does to any other version of D&D magic

 

[Krachek]

Conjure Elemental seems far better than Cloud of Daggers as a similarly conjured stationary effect. Am I missing something here?

Cloud of dagger is sure to affect someone in the cloud.
The Conjure elemental is quite vague. It don’t ask an unoccupied square, so you can place it on an enemy?
it require to Move within 5 feet to trigger the effect. Does moving into the spirit count? In all case an enemy not moving won’t be affected.
I call this crappy design. D minus.

 

[Krachek]

The conjure minor elemental will produce a lot of damage when combine with scorching ray. If a caster manage to combo with Eldritch blast it can also be mad.
Conjure minor elemental can boost scorching ray by 6d8. At base level.
But any upcast be be silly.
12d8 per scorching ray if CME is upcast at level 5
18d8 per scorching ray if CME is upcast at level 6.
and that not even use the upcast of scorching ray if more boost is needed.

 

[Yaarel]

Real world bards don't run around casting 1st to 9th level spells for one thing. They don't have magical songs of sort D&D bards have. They don't have proficiency or a bonus at everything. They didn't inspire the way D&D bards do.

Spells like slot 9 Shapechange derive from reallife Celtic folkbelief. The 5e Bard class is remarkable because one can make mythologically accurate bard, such as Taliesin and Merlin, who do "run around casting 1st to 9th level spells".

 

[Yaarel]

Shakespeare is called "The Bard" as a term of endearment because he figuratively spoke poetry of magic and prophecy, especially in the sense of an "official" national poet. A bard is a historical shamanic institution that serves technocratic functions in a traditional Celtic government. A royal court often had a bard to navigate the fates of the leaders. There are reallife colleges today that were founded by medieval bards.

A "troubadour" or stage performer is something else.

The D&D Bard can handle character concepts that relate to a magical artist and enchanting entertainer, but it can also handle a mythologically accurate bard.

 

[the Jester]

In the spell descriptions, to list the classes is waste of space. It is unnecessary − and is always untrue because subclasses and other features can gain the spells anyway.

VERY hard disagree.

 

[Yaarel]

But... conjure animals.

Play, so everything else is like 'you summon a planar spirit that does it's thing and you are a diet 4e Invoker' and that's cool. But Conjure animals is just 'ghost animal exist'. Like... what? It feels like such a missed opportunity. especially when they talk all the time about 'class fantasy' and then this is what they think people imagine in the current pop culture zeitgeist when they imagine calling upon an animal spirit to defend you.

I love the "ghost animals" sotospeak of the Conjure Animals spell. They lean into animistic concepts such as Indigenous American "power animal" and Norse "fylgja".

 

[Yaarel]

While it is true that there is no set volume for the verbal chant of the spell, both the definition and the real world common usage of chanting mean that it is typically shouted or sung. Just look at protests, religious ceremonies, etc. where chanting is done. It ain't quiet. Sometimes chanting is done atypically in a normal tone of voice, but that's rare. What chanting isn't ever, is in a low voice or whisper.

So DM's can vary the volume, but if they are going by what chanting means, it would be fairly easily heard.

The Verbal component can be loud like a scroll chanter for an audience to hear, or quiet as a personal meditation to focus ones thoughts and intentions.

The player decides how loud the V is depending on purpose.

Similarly, the Somatic component can be a spectacular dance or a subtle shift of finger gestures. The player decides.

 

[Yaarel]

That is why spell description section needs separation by spell level first, then every spell level needs alphabetical listing.

and yes, every spell needs class list.

I can live with the spell descriptions being organized by slot.

It would mean, there needs to be an index to find the a spell.

But going thru the spells, slot by slot, is useful to pick which spell one wants at the newest highest slot available, and to pick a spell for any of the other slots.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I love the "ghost animals" sotospeak of the Conjure Animals spell. They lean into animistic concepts such as Indigenous American "power animal" and Norse "fylgja".

Except like... not?

You're not gaining any power or wisdom, you're not communing, you're not getting insight, you're not even getting the advantages having a real animal would. You just make a trap square.

The mechanics of this spell work for so many concepts and don't work for the one they gave it to fill in the name slot.