D&D (2024) Playtest Packet 6: Monk reactions?

[Remathilis]

Maybe proficiency modifier + level is best, allowing for a range of 4 Di at 2nd level, 8 Di at 5th level, all the way up to 26 Di Points at level 20.

Breaking it away from Ability scores would be especially helpful if they take some of our advice to allow Str and Dex builds.

Proficiency scales with level. Just give the monk more points built in. Unless you want a monk 2/fighter 18 to have 8 di points.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

The first suggestion basically amounts to one extra di point at level 2 if you start with 16 wisdom. That's it. I don't think that really addresses monk's problems.

The second requires the monk to give up their action for a turn, which means no offence, and...why? Are monks currently so overpowered that we can't give them something without taking something away?

Why not just give them extra di points equal to their Wisdom modifier? Would en extra few di points make them the S tier class? Sometimes the obvious solution is the right solution.

Eh, I agree it's too fiddly. My most recent post feels better to me. Not Wisdom-based, but PB+Level. Natural scaling, less pressure on MAD.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Proficiency scales with level. Just give the monk more points built in. Unless you want a monk 2/fighter 18 to have 8 di points.

Just say "Add Proficiency modifier you'd have with only your Monk levels" or some other, better way of phrasing that.

 

[Clint_L]

The problem is that Discipline points don't scale like spell slots do, especially when your late-game powers are going to be using 1/5 of your total points.

Exactly - it's hard to equate one di point to a level 9 spell.

 

[mellored]

They aren't if they don't have any Discipline Points, which is the point.

Which is why I like the recharge idea.

As an action, regain a ki.

The problem currently with the Monk as spec'd is that they are reliant on a resource to do most of the stuff that actually relates to their subclass. You want to use your powers? Well, you start with two points of Discipline. Good luck!

They fixed the subclass.

Shadow monk darkness cost 1 instead of 2. And shadow step is free.

Open hand is added on to flurry, no extra cost. And you get step of the wind for free.

Elemental cost 1 for a 10 minutes of reach. And 1 for 10 minutes of flight.

I don't think the overall concept or design of the Monk is bad, necessarily.

Which is my main point.

Monks have a good overall concept and design.

Balance is just a bit off at low levels. Being stuck to the 1 per level is the part that isn't working.

Overall, I'd say that it'd be better to use DP to refill or do more rather than just having a tax to do something.

I want DP itself to refill.

Level 1: you gain a pool of DP equal to your wisdom modifier. Refills on a short rest.

Level 5: As an action, regain 1 DP.

Level 11: as a bonus action, regain 1 DP

Level 17: you gain 1 DP at the start of your turn.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Proficiency scales with level. Just give the monk more points built in. Unless you want a monk 2/fighter 18 to have 8 di points.

I'd be fine with that, to be honest. They'd continue to feel monkish at high level. It's not that big of a requirement because still requires them to make action/bonus action choices, and they don't have Stunning Strike.

 

[Remathilis]

Just say "Add Proficiency modifier you'd have with only your Monk levels" or some other, better way of phrasing that.

Or, just add two to the di points cloumn and add an additional one every few levels until they hit 26 points at 20th. We can just adjust the table, no need to complicate the math...

 

[Justice and Rule]

Which is why I like the recharge idea.

As an action, regain a ki.

Nah, just let them do more things for free! I thought about doing something similar like this and when I tested it, it sucked to have to take a turn doing nothing just to be able to do something the next turn. Then you get on a loop where you do something, recover, do something, recover. It's like you're a Martial Arts crossbow, but slower.

They fixed the subclass.

Shadow monk darkness cost 1 instead of 2. And shadow step is free.

Shadow Step was always free. It's one of the reasons why the Way of Shadow was always a top-tier Monk class: your gimmick depends on the environment, but the conditions aren't terrible and it's incredibly useful.

Now let me say, the changes to Shadow Arts are fantastic. Darkness doesn't just cost 1 DP instead of 2, but you can see through it and you an also move it. I stat'd up a luchadore ninja and one of the problems I had was that I needed a few levels in Warlock so that I could see through my own Darkness. This solves that completely! I can basically do my build straight-up as a Monk 6 build, or maybe 1 Rogue 1/Monk 6 build. But absolutely, this was a great f***ing change. And Cloak of Shadows is doing what I want them to do: instead of making the cool power cost a DP, remove the cost and allow an extra benefit from adding a DP. Solid all around. I think I said elsewhere that Wizards should focus on making all their subclasses like they make their Shadow ones because they are generally pretty damn good.

Open hand is added on to flurry, no extra cost. And you get step of the wind for free.

Open Hand was made worse by allowing a save to avoid losing their reaction. Flat out bad change because that one just didn't need a save.

Wholeness of Body now costs DP, gets me less HP, and has a second resource limit on it. Sure, I can do it quicker, but I get a helluva lot less by using it now and it takes away from me being able to be a punch-monk.

Fleet Step is at 11th Level and admittedly it's okay, but it's just combining two things that Rogues could already do with Bonus Actions into 1 Bonus Action. Monks should honestly be able to Dash as a Bonus Action for free anyways. I'm not too impressed.

Elemental cost 1 for a 10 minutes of reach. And 1 for 10 minutes of flight.

Elemental is okay: it's competent and workmanlike but also generic and flavorless for what it's meant to be doing. At the least it's definitely more DP efficient than the previous one, but I'd rather something more involved, where you got a bunch of flavorful techniques that you could pick from. But that goes against how things seem to be going for Martials, and maybe they've just conceded that they don't know how to balance spell-like abilities with DP.

Which is my main point.

Monks have a good overall concept and design.

Balance is just a bit off at low levels. Being stuck to the 1 per level is the part that isn't working.

I want DP itself to refill.

Level 1: you gain a pool of DP equal to your wisdom modifier. Refills on a short rest.

Level 5: As an action, regain 1 DP.

Level 11: as a bonus action, regain 1 DP

Level 17: you gain 1 DP at the start of your turn.

I would agree that the concept is overall pretty good, as are some of the powers. But rather than having everything cost something, I'd rather the monk just be able to do a bunch of cool things and if they want to keep doing more in one turn, let them spend for it. My Punch-Monk's entire gimmick relies on me being able to use Flurry of Blows: whatever improvement you give me doesn't matter if I don't have DP. So... why not let me not need DP for that thing? I then have my niche and when I want to move outside it, I can use DP to supplement my flexibility.

I mean, I think they should get more DP overall anyways, but I think from a design standpoint they should start lowering costs across the board and they should start by making your normal gimmick free.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Or, just add two to the di points cloumn and add an additional one every few levels until they hit 26 points at 20th. We can just adjust the table, no need to complicate the math...

Eh, sure. Either way works.

 

[mellored]

I would agree that the concept is overall
I mean, I think they should get more DP overall anyways, but I think from a design standpoint they should start lowering costs across the board and they should start by making your normal gimmick free.

More DP and less cost is functionality the same thing.

I won't be upset with either.