D&D (2024) Playtest Packet 6: Monk reactions?

[fluffybunbunkittens]

And enemies are trying to keep you away from shaking the caster in the back.

Mobility goes both ways.

Yes, and if the Monk goes to get the enemy caster in the back, he gets surrounded and dies. That's the issue.

I don't want them to be just another tank, but their much-promised mobility... doesn't often really lead to much, does it, especially when it starts with them having to burn Ki just to Disengage.

You don't expect a rogue to stand in a room trading blows.

Rogues Disengage for free, though.

 

[Clint_L]

A monk could play keep-away and keep running off... but that is not at all applicable to an actual play scenario, where you are part of a party, and are often in the position where you're trying to keep enemies from shanking the other PCs.

From the rest of the party's viewpoint, if you'd just picked Fighter instead of Monk, you'd likely be doing your job better. Not saying they should just stand there in a white room and trade blows, but... that kind of often comes with the role.

So this is the thing - I'm having trouble thinking of a niche for monk that other classes can't of better. Skirmisher? Rogue and some class builds do it better. This "kite them with a x-bow" scenario would be the ultimate failure for a monk - why not a ranger, dex fighter, warlock, rogue, etc. - any of them could do that way better. Tanking? Don't even think about it.

The monk has incredible speed, but not much they can do with it.

As for taking a dip into monk - it's not very tempting for most classes because monks are very MAD and most of their stuff requires ki/di. Conversely, monks seldom dip into other classes because any loss of di/ki puts them even further behind, and they are already so MAD. Monks are probably one of the least "dipped" classes - in looking over the 70 or so characters from my school campaigns, not one has dipped into monk, and no monk has dipped into another class.

 

[mellored]

Yes, and if the Monk goes to get the enemy caster in the back, he gets surrounded and dies. That's the issue.

So you just got the entire enemy team to waste their turn chasing you around for 1 ki?

Spend 1 more and run even further away. Congratulations on effectively stunning the enemy for 2 rounds.

Or dodge and let the wizard fireball the entire enemy party. Not like you take any damage (probably).

Not sure what part of that is a failure.

I don't want them to be just another tank, but their much-promised mobility... doesn't often really lead to much, does it, especially when it starts with them having to burn Ki just to Disengage.

I get the feeling you haven't done it very much.

 

[Clint_L]

The more I think on it, here's where I am at:

Level1: add di points (1 per level+wisdom modifier) and step of the wind as their first ability.

Level 2: add patient defence and shift flurry of blows to coming off the attack action instead the unarmed strike bonus action.

And...I kind of think that would basically fix them. With FoB coming off the attack action, they could charge in, do a serious attack, and either SotW back to safety, use PD to stay in melee, or risk using the bonus action for an extra unarmed strike if offence is really a priority.

Suddenly the monk plays like a monk - a super maneuverable skirmisher. You wouldn't want one for your tank, but they aren't going to die instantly if they need to stay in melee. And I don't think that looks OP at all. But it looks like a competitive option.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

So you just got the entire enemy team to waste their turn chasing you around for 1 ki?

If it means for the rest of the fight your PC team is one man down, sure. They may not even have to run after the Monk, if they have anyone other than that one lonely caster in their backline.

Spend 1 more and run even further away. Congratulations on effectively stunning the enemy for 2 rounds.

You cannot, though, because you had to spend your bonus action on Disengaging to get safely past the frontline (because of your bad AC) in the first place.

Even if you were to then move out of range of the enemy thugs, that happened on your turn. They see this, and you're out of the range of them, why would they stop beating on the rest of your team?

Or dodge and let the wizard fireball the entire enemy party. Not like you take any damage (probably).

Limiting the dodge is the same thing, that you likely already spent your bonus action getting there in the first place. A task that could've also been accomplished by anyone with a Misty Step-equivalent, which is quite common now, so it's not that special of a feat.

A Monk running to enemy casters and Stunning Striking them isn't bad! It's just easy for it to go really badly. It can be conditionally be great, but often it cannot be accompanied by Flurry to do the actual job you're there to do.

 

[mellored]

If it means for the rest of the fight your PC team is one man down, sure. They may not even have to run after the Monk, if they have anyone other than that one lonely caster in their backline.


You cannot, though, because you had to spend your bonus action on Disengaging to get safely past the frontline (because of your bad AC) in the first place.

Even if you were to then move out of range of the enemy thugs, that happened on your turn. They see this, and you're out of the range of them, why would they stop beating on the rest of your team?

So the enemies are in 2 places at once?
Spending their action to dash after you and still attacking your team?
Plus there is another guy in the back?

I mean if you just keep adding enemies, then yea. It's going to be a hard encounter.

Limiting the dodge is the same thing, that you likely already spent your bonus action getting there in the first place. A task that could've also been accomplished by anyone with a Misty Step-equivalent, which is quite common now, so it's not that special of a feat.

Misty step is 30'. Total of 60'.

Monks can go 80' at level 2. Increasing at higher levels.

But sure. You have a 2 per short rest Misty Step. Not going to call that a bad thing.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

So the enemies are in 2 places at once?
Spending their action to dash after you and still attacking your team?

As DnD is turn-based, the enemies can see if you ended up out of their reach when their turn comes.

 

[Justice and Rule]

As DnD is turn-based, the enemies can see if you ended up out of their reach when their turn comes.

I mean, unless we went over to Greyhawk Initiative, which... honestly, I think would be a wild improvement in terms of making the game interesting, but I know I'm probably in the minority there.

 

[mellored]

As DnD is turn-based, the enemies can see if you ended up out of their reach when their turn comes.

Ok. So then either you are safe to flurry of blows the wizard.
Or they spend their action to dash back to protect them.
*possibly needing to disengage from the fighter too.

Win-win.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The more I think on it, here's where I am at:

Level1: add di points (1 per level+wisdom modifier) and step of the wind as their first ability.

Level 2: add patient defence and shift flurry of blows to coming off the attack action instead the unarmed strike bonus action.

So, something like "Spend 1 ki when you take the attack action, you make make one additional attack. You may only do this once per turn"?