AntiStateQuixote
Enemy of the State
Memorial Day Playtest
Quick Take
We played. It was fun. It felt like D&D. It even felt a little bit like old school D&D.
Ignorance Disclaimer
I did not read any of the DM material before playing. I’m normally a DM in our group. I wanted to experience the game from the player's side of the screen with no knowledge of what the DM had or knew. We gave DM duties over to one of our regular players to see how the game goes for a new(ish) DM.
DM
Relatively inexperienced DM who has lots of play experience in 3.x and 4e, but nothing prior to 3rd edition. Has DM'd one offs here and there to give regular DMs a break, but usually plays for last 10 years or so.
Players
This is much of our normal playing group, less three players and add one.
Me: experienced gamer since early 80s playing and DMing through all editions of the game. I'm one of the two regular DMs for our group. We currently play 4e since its release. I'm DMing our current campaign.
Jeff: experienced gamer since early 80s that has played and DMed all editions of the game. He's our other regular DM. Played with our group since 2001.
Rozanne: my wife. Started playing 3rd edition in 2000 and has played 3.x or 4e pretty steadily since then. She's tried a stint as campaign DM that didn't go well. She is exclusively a player now.
Michael: my son. Started playing 3rd edition around 2002 or so and has played off and on since then through 4th edition. He's not a regular player now and has very little DM experience.
Characters
We played all of the characters. I took both clerics. Rozanne played the wizard. Michael played the rogue. Jeff played the slayer. These were pretty typical character choices for most of the players. Rozanne often plays casters and has an affinity for wizards. Michael usually plays strikers. Jeff often plays clerics or melee defenders. I usually play melee warriors (striker or defender) or warlocks. I love warlocks!
The Setup
Very straight-forward: we were sent to the Caves of Chaos to clean out the kobolds. We began the game in the chasm near the kobold cave entrance. Some successful spot checks and we see kobold guards outside. Go!
Play
Overall was pretty good. We managed to go through the entire complex with no need for an extended rest in about 3 hours of playing time. Probably would have gone a lot faster had the DM ditched the grid, but having come from 3e/4e tradition, I don't think he has a concept of gridless combat.
We fought a lot of kobolds. We wasted a burning hands spell on the rats. Wizard blew her sleep on four of the outside guards. Would have been nice to have in the Hive later, but we survived anyway. Pretty straight-foward dungeon romp for us. None of the kobolds could speak Common so taking prisoners was of no value.
We failed to detect the falling rocks trap. DM never gave us a roll, but asked for Dex check by the slayer to avoid setting it off. Once it went off, auto damage (no save) to both frontline fighters (the dwarfs). I would have run it differently, but not a killer.
The fight in the Hive was freaking scary. We were down a few hit points and the defender cleric had already used his HD in short rest. We had NOT used any healing magic yet, but the wizard was down to at-will attack spells.
Light spell cast on the defender dwarf's hammer gave bright light (disadvantage to kobolds) to offset advantage from greater numbers. That probably kept us alive. Holy Word came in VERY handy: rolled a six on both of them. Also had to use one Cure Light Wounds in this fight.
Chieftain and guards came along right after we finished the hive. No short rest, so everyone down a little bit. This fight was a bit of a slogfest to get through the 44 hp of the chief. I don't think the outcome was ever in doubt once we killed his "non-minion" guards.
After the fight, short rest for heals on fighter, wizard, and laser cleric to continue exploring. We didn't know we were finished with combat, but were willing to keep exploring for "one more fight" if we needed to in order to finish the place.
Good
Advantage/Disadvantage: I love this mechanic. I loved the kobolds having it with greater numbers and losing it due to light. I loved the rogue finding that it was useful to hide one round, attack the next round against the chief. Question – advantage cancels disadvantage (and vice versa). How should you handle multiple advantages or disadvantages? Does one advantage cancel all disadvantages and vice versa? That’s the way we played it. Might open up some interesting opportunities if “stacking” advantages could overcome disadvantages, but might also make it more complex than it’s worth.
Defender: I loved slamming my shield in front of a kobold to ruin his attack on my slayer buddy. The DM let me "react" after the normal attack roll. Probably need to tighten up the mechanics to call for the Defender disadvantage before rolling. Or not. Maybe it SHOULD be that powerful! It was very cool to see him roll a 20 and then say, "Nah, I'm going to throw my shield in front of that attack," and then watch him roll a 7 for the disadvantage roll!
Hit Dice: not at all overpowered, but just enough "oomph" for us to get through the dungeon. In old school D&D that exact same lair would have probably forced the PCs out to rest/recover at least once if not twice. We got through it in one go, no long rest, but were right on the edge at the end. Good work. If we had 4e type healing surges there would have never been any challenge at all.
Healing Word: heal for 1d6 and attack? I'll take that. I wish I had used Crusader's Strike just to see it in play, but I'm definitely a resource hoarder and wouldn't risk burning a potential heal for the extra damage. As it worked out, most of the kobolds were "minions" so the extra damage wouldn’t have mattered anyway.
Maybe Needs Improvement
Magic Missile: at-will is VERY powerful. Might need some adjustment? Once we figured out how weak the kobolds were it became auto kill every round. That's not terrible, but was really strong.
Radiant Lance: at-will is VERY powerful. This attack (+6 to hit!) is better than any other character's attack and the damage is STRONG at d8+4. The defender cleric had zero chance of keeping up with the healer cleric in damage.
Rogue sneak attack: requires one round to hide, next round attack. That makes him an every other round striker that does less damage than the front line fighter does every round. Pretty weak. Sure, the rogue has other tools for exploration/interaction, but this particular session was almost pure combat and the rogue was weak for the most part.
Exploration Mechanics: maybe it was the inexperienced DM, but there needs to be more clarity on when to call for a check and how/why. At the very beginning of the session the rogue and the defender cleric made good hide checks and moved up to get into ambush positions. The kobolds saw everyone else. On the rogue's turn he wanted to move and attack, but the DM made him make another check to hide to get advantage? I think he ran it wrong, but not sure. Anyway, other situations that could use clarity: getting past the pit in the entrance? Just how many times do you want us to make that check (we moved back and forth a couple of times outside of combat)?
Slayer attack bonus: maybe he was just rolling low a lot, but he sure seemed to miss more than hit. For the “best fighter in the game” he was kind of weak with his 3 points of auto damage on most attacks.
Defender cleric attack bonus: very weak. Missed WAY more than hit.
Must Fix
I'm not a fan of -20 intiative for surprise. It only mattered once, sort of on the very first combat where the rogue and tank were hidden. They could have had surprise, but all that meant was they went first, which they did anyway by attacking from hiding while the kobolds watched to see what the other party members were doing. Surprise should gain a free action or free turn.
We need some tactical options. Movement not provoking attacks sucks! The DM and the players repeatedly took advantage of holes in formations to move back and forth with impunity to land attacks on back rank characters. I didn't like that at all. Opportunity attacks, zones of control, or something along those lines is a must for any tactical battle going on. I know back in the day we hand-waved and played gridless, but it was kind of understood that melee bad guys couldn't just slip past your frontline fighters to get to the wizard unless there were obvious gaping holes. Using a grid and the rules as written right now, there's no reason they can't slip through. Not fun.
Where's the loot? We killed about 50 kobolds, cleaned out the lair, killed their pet rat, and came away with less than 100 gp worth of loot? We did search the place pretty well. In fact, I think we oversearched. Was the loot purposely kept low? Is this not something important to the playtest? It would be nice if the heroes could at least replace their healer's kit and buy an extra healing potion or two after the first full adventure. We earned 960 xp each, but a pittance in treasure.
There was supposed to be a diplomatic/playing them against each other option? Maybe our DM hand-waved it and just wanted us to fight. However, the fact that none of the kobolds spoke Common pretty much sucked the life out of any decent roleplay opportunity. Battle cries and shouted huzzahs on good attack rolls only goes so far.
Quick Take
We played. It was fun. It felt like D&D. It even felt a little bit like old school D&D.
Ignorance Disclaimer
I did not read any of the DM material before playing. I’m normally a DM in our group. I wanted to experience the game from the player's side of the screen with no knowledge of what the DM had or knew. We gave DM duties over to one of our regular players to see how the game goes for a new(ish) DM.
DM
Relatively inexperienced DM who has lots of play experience in 3.x and 4e, but nothing prior to 3rd edition. Has DM'd one offs here and there to give regular DMs a break, but usually plays for last 10 years or so.
Players
This is much of our normal playing group, less three players and add one.
Me: experienced gamer since early 80s playing and DMing through all editions of the game. I'm one of the two regular DMs for our group. We currently play 4e since its release. I'm DMing our current campaign.
Jeff: experienced gamer since early 80s that has played and DMed all editions of the game. He's our other regular DM. Played with our group since 2001.
Rozanne: my wife. Started playing 3rd edition in 2000 and has played 3.x or 4e pretty steadily since then. She's tried a stint as campaign DM that didn't go well. She is exclusively a player now.
Michael: my son. Started playing 3rd edition around 2002 or so and has played off and on since then through 4th edition. He's not a regular player now and has very little DM experience.
Characters
We played all of the characters. I took both clerics. Rozanne played the wizard. Michael played the rogue. Jeff played the slayer. These were pretty typical character choices for most of the players. Rozanne often plays casters and has an affinity for wizards. Michael usually plays strikers. Jeff often plays clerics or melee defenders. I usually play melee warriors (striker or defender) or warlocks. I love warlocks!
The Setup
Very straight-forward: we were sent to the Caves of Chaos to clean out the kobolds. We began the game in the chasm near the kobold cave entrance. Some successful spot checks and we see kobold guards outside. Go!
Play
Overall was pretty good. We managed to go through the entire complex with no need for an extended rest in about 3 hours of playing time. Probably would have gone a lot faster had the DM ditched the grid, but having come from 3e/4e tradition, I don't think he has a concept of gridless combat.
We fought a lot of kobolds. We wasted a burning hands spell on the rats. Wizard blew her sleep on four of the outside guards. Would have been nice to have in the Hive later, but we survived anyway. Pretty straight-foward dungeon romp for us. None of the kobolds could speak Common so taking prisoners was of no value.
We failed to detect the falling rocks trap. DM never gave us a roll, but asked for Dex check by the slayer to avoid setting it off. Once it went off, auto damage (no save) to both frontline fighters (the dwarfs). I would have run it differently, but not a killer.
The fight in the Hive was freaking scary. We were down a few hit points and the defender cleric had already used his HD in short rest. We had NOT used any healing magic yet, but the wizard was down to at-will attack spells.
Light spell cast on the defender dwarf's hammer gave bright light (disadvantage to kobolds) to offset advantage from greater numbers. That probably kept us alive. Holy Word came in VERY handy: rolled a six on both of them. Also had to use one Cure Light Wounds in this fight.
Chieftain and guards came along right after we finished the hive. No short rest, so everyone down a little bit. This fight was a bit of a slogfest to get through the 44 hp of the chief. I don't think the outcome was ever in doubt once we killed his "non-minion" guards.
After the fight, short rest for heals on fighter, wizard, and laser cleric to continue exploring. We didn't know we were finished with combat, but were willing to keep exploring for "one more fight" if we needed to in order to finish the place.
Good
Advantage/Disadvantage: I love this mechanic. I loved the kobolds having it with greater numbers and losing it due to light. I loved the rogue finding that it was useful to hide one round, attack the next round against the chief. Question – advantage cancels disadvantage (and vice versa). How should you handle multiple advantages or disadvantages? Does one advantage cancel all disadvantages and vice versa? That’s the way we played it. Might open up some interesting opportunities if “stacking” advantages could overcome disadvantages, but might also make it more complex than it’s worth.
Defender: I loved slamming my shield in front of a kobold to ruin his attack on my slayer buddy. The DM let me "react" after the normal attack roll. Probably need to tighten up the mechanics to call for the Defender disadvantage before rolling. Or not. Maybe it SHOULD be that powerful! It was very cool to see him roll a 20 and then say, "Nah, I'm going to throw my shield in front of that attack," and then watch him roll a 7 for the disadvantage roll!
Hit Dice: not at all overpowered, but just enough "oomph" for us to get through the dungeon. In old school D&D that exact same lair would have probably forced the PCs out to rest/recover at least once if not twice. We got through it in one go, no long rest, but were right on the edge at the end. Good work. If we had 4e type healing surges there would have never been any challenge at all.
Healing Word: heal for 1d6 and attack? I'll take that. I wish I had used Crusader's Strike just to see it in play, but I'm definitely a resource hoarder and wouldn't risk burning a potential heal for the extra damage. As it worked out, most of the kobolds were "minions" so the extra damage wouldn’t have mattered anyway.
Maybe Needs Improvement
Magic Missile: at-will is VERY powerful. Might need some adjustment? Once we figured out how weak the kobolds were it became auto kill every round. That's not terrible, but was really strong.
Radiant Lance: at-will is VERY powerful. This attack (+6 to hit!) is better than any other character's attack and the damage is STRONG at d8+4. The defender cleric had zero chance of keeping up with the healer cleric in damage.
Rogue sneak attack: requires one round to hide, next round attack. That makes him an every other round striker that does less damage than the front line fighter does every round. Pretty weak. Sure, the rogue has other tools for exploration/interaction, but this particular session was almost pure combat and the rogue was weak for the most part.
Exploration Mechanics: maybe it was the inexperienced DM, but there needs to be more clarity on when to call for a check and how/why. At the very beginning of the session the rogue and the defender cleric made good hide checks and moved up to get into ambush positions. The kobolds saw everyone else. On the rogue's turn he wanted to move and attack, but the DM made him make another check to hide to get advantage? I think he ran it wrong, but not sure. Anyway, other situations that could use clarity: getting past the pit in the entrance? Just how many times do you want us to make that check (we moved back and forth a couple of times outside of combat)?
Slayer attack bonus: maybe he was just rolling low a lot, but he sure seemed to miss more than hit. For the “best fighter in the game” he was kind of weak with his 3 points of auto damage on most attacks.
Defender cleric attack bonus: very weak. Missed WAY more than hit.
Must Fix
I'm not a fan of -20 intiative for surprise. It only mattered once, sort of on the very first combat where the rogue and tank were hidden. They could have had surprise, but all that meant was they went first, which they did anyway by attacking from hiding while the kobolds watched to see what the other party members were doing. Surprise should gain a free action or free turn.
We need some tactical options. Movement not provoking attacks sucks! The DM and the players repeatedly took advantage of holes in formations to move back and forth with impunity to land attacks on back rank characters. I didn't like that at all. Opportunity attacks, zones of control, or something along those lines is a must for any tactical battle going on. I know back in the day we hand-waved and played gridless, but it was kind of understood that melee bad guys couldn't just slip past your frontline fighters to get to the wizard unless there were obvious gaping holes. Using a grid and the rules as written right now, there's no reason they can't slip through. Not fun.
Where's the loot? We killed about 50 kobolds, cleaned out the lair, killed their pet rat, and came away with less than 100 gp worth of loot? We did search the place pretty well. In fact, I think we oversearched. Was the loot purposely kept low? Is this not something important to the playtest? It would be nice if the heroes could at least replace their healer's kit and buy an extra healing potion or two after the first full adventure. We earned 960 xp each, but a pittance in treasure.
There was supposed to be a diplomatic/playing them against each other option? Maybe our DM hand-waved it and just wanted us to fight. However, the fact that none of the kobolds spoke Common pretty much sucked the life out of any decent roleplay opportunity. Battle cries and shouted huzzahs on good attack rolls only goes so far.
