Please help me build a 15th level character

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Wenn I retired my Ranger/Fighter (it somehow became boring), I rolled up a Shifter. I believe he started as Druid8/Shifter5 or Druid8/Shifter6. (25 point buy "only")

I had great fun so far. The class is very powerful and seems sometimes underrated. (Never leave home without Greater Magic Fang)

I just reached Druid8/Shifter9, and when I see the new forms I can now take (especially Planetar and Cloud Giant), I see a terrifying combat monster, which is also fun in noncombat situations. My shapes and my skills make me useful in nearly every situation. (I took Cosmopolitian Bluff and Diplomacy to get the best out of my skill points)

If you really consider Animal Lord, you should check if using Ranger is not better. I believe the Animal Lord might be more a fighter than a caster, and Ranger might help you more in this case. (Especially a Bear Lord, the +2 bonus to strength is useful for every fighter class). A lower Base Attack Bonus is not really that terrible.
(Oh, and do not cheat- taking Fighter levels won`t allow you too take Animal Defiance and Animcal Control. Don`t trust everyone on the net )
But when seeing this, check if Ranger15 heading for Shifter might be not even more powerful. (Ranger have Polymorh Self as 4th level spell, and I believe a Ranger15 is able to shift forms)

If you take Ranger or Druid, you should really buy a Ring of Animal Friendship if you worry about combat abilities. 12 extra HD of monstesr. (2 Dire Bears?)

But since you are using 34 point buy...
Remember that Monk and Paladin really need many points, and you got them here.
I think you won`t use Psionics, but if you would, think about them. (Speaking of ECL creatures, when I retired my Ranger, I made up 2 characters -the shifter, and a Half Dragon Psychic Warrior. Very important part of his "power" would have been Body Feedback Power or what it is called - Take Double Strength Bonus only as subdual damage)

Point Buy ideas (before extra points due to levels):

Druid/Shifter
Str8
Dex8
Con15
Int16
Wis16
Cha14
A good shifter doesn`t need any of his physical ability scores, besides Constitution for hp.
(This is a powergaming/munchkin version, obviously - it would actually be very difficult to survive the first 4 druid levels with these stats. On the other hand, from a roleplaying perspective it explains why you decided to abondon your natural humanoid form... Interesting in this case: If you use the shifters ability to become a human (even better: elf or orc) your abilities are better than they are in your normal form )

Ranger(later /Shifter) or Ranger/Animal Lord
Str15
Dex15
Con15
Int12
Wis14
Cha10
You will want to be a good fighter, so you will probably need good combat abilities. Use the extra ability points do make the physical scores even. Add a Periapt of Wisdom +4 to be able to get 4th level bonus spells. (Especially important for going shifter)

Druid/Animal Lord
Str14
Dex14
Con14
Int14
Wis15
Cha10
Every extra ability points goes to wisdom.

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Nifft]

I've pimped this combo before:

Paladin 9 / Sorc 1 / DragonDisciple 5
Sorc Spells: Feather Fall and True Strike

You'll be able to fly without magic, you'll get +8 Str -- nice for a Paladin -- and your saves will be decent. For excellent RP opps, play a Paladin of Lathander who's becoming a Gold Dragon.

-- Nifft

 

[Kugar]

Multiclassed Spellcasters

For an interesting take at multiclassed spellcasters, take a look at the Hallowed Mage from Monte Cook's Book of Hallowed Might.

Web enhancement with sample

Kugar

 

[zyzzyr]

Hi all,

There are some very interesting ideas here.

I am decided on playing a nature-based character, but haven't quite settled on what yet. The Animal Lord class is very interesting, but I see a few major problems with it.

The animals themselves are nowhere near balanced.

As animal companions, would you rather have:

Dire Bear: 12 HD, 102 HP, Init +1, Spd 40 ft, AC 17, Atk 2 claws +18, bite +13 (2d4+10 claw, 2d8+5 bite) with Improved Grab

OR

Legendary Wolf: 14 HD, 133 HP, Init +9, Spd 60 ft., AC 24, Atk +19 bite (2d8 + 10 bite) with Trip

If you take 10 levels of animal lord, same animal, would you rather be a Legendary Wolf or a Legendary Bear? Granted, you don't get the stats of the animal you morph into (you have to subtract their BAB and add your BAB to the Atk bonus), but would you rather go around with 3 attacks at Str 36 or 1 attack at Str 25?

Would you rather summon 2d3 dire bears, or 2d3 dire wolves?

Also with animal lord, if you don't get the lesser wild shape (legendary), you can only form into a dire animal. Would you rather be dire wolf or dire bear? You wouldn't be much use fighting out of your form anyhow.

Mustrum: I've compared Drd5/Lord9 vs Rgr6/Lord10, and you only differ by +3 on the BAB ... not really worth it once you are wildshaped. On the other hand, the combination of Natural Spell and Eschew Materials feats means I never have to leave the animal form. Whee!

I am definitely interested in the dark aspect of it, but with the combination proposed by Oni, there is very little to bring to the battle. You can shape into a dire wolf at best (+7 Str modifier, so +14-17 to attack, roughly, compared to +13 Str modifier, +23 - 25 to attack, roughly for legendary bear).

I am definitely going to acquire a ring of animal friendship ... maybe 2 (though my GM might go ballistic!). Dire Bear, btw, is 12 HD. (Another example, 2 dire wolves vs 1 dire bear?) Oh, and some of my animal companions will definitely be awakened.

So basically I feel like I am unfortunately in the position of having to take BearLord if I want to be of help in combat. This seems unfair, as I'd really rather be a WolfLord, but the combat differences are enormous.

If anyone can help me work this out, I would appreciate it. It is actually giving me a physical headache

zyzzyr

 

[The Forsaken One]

Wizard/redwizard/shadowadept

or just

wizard/and one of the two

Nothing beats that in the realms, nothing.

 

[Remathilis]

Are you sure you need animal defiance also? I didn't see it in the pre-reqs, but I might of just missed it.

The animal lord you choose will be mostly determined by what are you looking for...

Damage - Bear
Speed/Stealth - Snake or Cat
Wilderness/Tracking - Wolf

If your party is going to have a tank or major damage dealer, you don't need to worry on the combat stats of the animal you're going into. If you ARE the tank, go bearlord.

Also, your decision might be better made with the following considerations...

What style campaign? (Kick in door, storybased?)
What are the other PC's playing?
What type of setting (Underdark, Arctic, etc. Esp. Imp for a nature PC)

As a Side Note: you could go green and go druid/Verdant lord. Tree powers, treant buddies, and full spellcasting (plus spontaneous regen wounds spells!)

 

[zyzzyr]

Remathilis:

Animal Defiance is a prereq for Animal Control.

I would normally agree, but after examining the Wolflord's ability to track, I wasn't too impressed.

A wolflord receives a +4 bonus to track, which stacks with Scent and the wolf skill bonus while wildshaped. Not bad overall - a +8 bonus after Scent, more or less.

The catch is, as a druid, I can wildshape into a wolf, and lose all but +4 to wilderness lore.

Even still, I can wildshape into a bear, and gain the Scent feat.

I'm not sure what kind of a campaign it will be yet. There's only 2 players, so we'll probably only have a group of 3 people. Likely less kick-in-the-door, but combat is still a major component, though it might be more stealthy.

The only other player is playing a rogue/fighter with an outdoorsy bent.

We'll be playing in an outdoorsy setting (maybe Silver Marches, maybe Westerlands ... more frontier stuff).

The one very big bonus I can see with a Wolflord is being able to talk to dogs within a city's limits ... much better at spying and information gathering than a bear.

I don't see a wolflord really adding too much to combat ... the trip attack is nice, but improved grab for a bear is nicer. It's not like wolflords get better spellcasting or anything like that. Now, wolflords can probably add more to the non-combat party aspects, which is good too. But with a small party, every individual counts.

I thought about Verdant Lord for a long time, and I'm not sold on it. I will give it another look when I get home - probably didn't look it over well enough.

zyzzyr

 

[Wippit Guud]

Don't k ow about pre-req's, or even the name of the class (damn me for being at work), how about...

Druid 5/Monk 5/OA PrC that gives you bear form 5.
Nice RP combination of classes, MF anf GMF to augment both wildshape and monk unarmed attack.

 

[Nifft]

LN Monk 1 / Druid 14 Wildshape Power -- your Wisdom adds to your AC in Wildshape form, and you can take Stunning Fist. Take a low Str and high Con, moderate Dex (for missile weapons when in humanoid form).

Ranger 15 -- with a high enough Wisdom to cast Poly Self, you have an interesting mix of spells & melee abilities. Even if you're stuck using the PHB Ranger, you won't suck.

Druid 5 / Shifter 10 -- you are VERY flexible.

-- Nifft

 

[zyzzyr]

re: Shifter ...

How much work is it to figure out what the BAB of the form is, and then replacing that with your own? It seems like an enormous amount of work.

Plus, are the options all that wide? That is, for combat you choose a form with a high str, high dex. For certain skills, you can shapechange into something that has a high racial bonus in that category.

But with the additional requirement of "being familiar with the form" - doesn't this highly restrict what you can change into? You can't change into just any old dragon - only one kind that you've previously met (though I would agree to any age/size).

zyzzyr