Please help with surprise question

[Malin Genie]

A party of two are travelling along.

A monster attacks, without the party having noticed it first.

However, the monster has only seen one of the two party members, not the other (who is hiding / moving silently)

Now, the rules say that if both sides are caught unawares, they are both 'surprised'. But here, the group has been 'caught unawares' by the creature, but the creature has also been been 'caught unawares' by half the group.

What happens? It seems a little strange to allow the hidden character to act faster just because he's hidden (he didn't see the creature either,) but OTOH to grant the creature alone a surprise round would not be fair, as if the first party member were not there, he and the second party member would be 'just as surprised as each other'...

Or have I completely misunderstood how to run surprise rounds (please tell me there's an easy solution...)?

 

[thalmin]

Simple. Everyone roll initiative. Everyone acts on own initiative but skip the totally surprised person first time through.

 

[Bauglir]

That the monster did not notice the hiding party members is irrelevant - it is aware of an enemy, while noone is aware of it.

Therefore combat starts when the monster makes its move, getting a surprise round against the visible party members. The hidden party members are unaware of the monster and are surprised when it makes its move, although they are hidden and are therefore safe. On their initiative in the next round they may act normally and catch the monster off guard (without its dex bonus), unless of course it spots them first.

 

[sgtnasty]

also, i would say the monsters would only be able to attack the pc who is visible to them

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

Does the hidden party member roll initiative, or act first in the first full round?

Maitre D

 

[Bauglir]

Roll initiative - that they were hidden doesn't change the fact that they were just as surprised to see the monster as everyone else.

 

[thalmin]

Oops. Not so simple, I guess. What they said, ignore what I said.

 

[Malin Genie]

Roll initiative - that they were hidden doesn't change the fact that they were just as surprised to see the monster as everyone else.

However, the monster is also 'surprised' to see the hidden character (even though it has seen the other party members....)

As I said, if the first party member wasn't there, both the monster and the second party member would get a surprise round (as I read the rules....)

So I just can't see it as being fair that the monster gets a surprise round on its own - but also kind of silly to give everyone but the visible character a surprise round (the hidden character is no less 'surprised' than the visible character...)

 

[totoro]

However, the monster is also 'surprised' to see the hidden character (even though it has seen the other party members....)

As I said, if the first party member wasn't there, both the monster and the second party member would get a surprise round (as I read the rules....)

So I just can't see it as being fair that the monster gets a surprise round on its own - but also kind of silly to give everyone but the visible character a surprise round (the hidden character is no less 'surprised' than the visible character...)

Since the hidden party member is surprised, he/she cannot act. That the monster will be surprised later is irrelevant.

It is perfectly fair for the monster to get a surprise round if nobody noticed it and it noticed one of the party. The hidden party member can get even with the monster after rolling initiative.

 

[Bauglir]

Since noone spotted the monster they are all caught flat footed when it gets its surprise round vs the visible party members, and will then roll initiative for the next round.

If the monster rolls a higher initiative than the hidden party members then it gets to roll an additional spot check to see them.

If, when the hidden party members' initiative comes up, the monster is still unaware of them, then they may make full-round or standard actions vs an opponent who is flat footed to them, which is in some ways better than having a surprise round. (where only partial actions may be made)