please poke holes in my idea

[Eben]

the plot hole that bardsandsages brings up

I don't consider that to be a plot hole: you don't need a car to invent the wheel.

Peter

 

[Trickstergod]

If magic doesn't work anywhere, then how did anyone make a structure to tap into otherworldly magical energies to begin with? The premise falls apart at square one.

No it doesn't. It's like thrusting up a giant, copper rod during a lightning storm. There's no lightning in the rod and no magic in the structure. One simply attracts the other. One from the sky, another from some magically active plane. The presumption that magic's required to make these structures is a false one.

Or, potentially, the structures are magic, but were made in a magically active area then teleported into the world. It could be that you simply can't cast magic in a dead zone, but magic cast outside the dead zone will work fine even upon entering it.

Of course, these are points Eben should have in mind in case anyone asks these questions during game - but there are perfectly reasonable explanations that make the idea work.

 

[Lockridge]

Expanding on my earlier idea:
Present the PCs with the point of view that the only way to stop the invasion is to destroy the magical structures thereby eliminating magic, and the portals, from the world.

This will force the PCs to fight on two fronts: the invaders themselves as well as those who find out what the PCs are doing and want to fight to preserve magic at all costs.

The PCs may later find another way to repel the invasion - perhaps some way to close the portals for a hundred years but with the threat that the invaders will return at that time so your world's mages better beef up. Perhaps divine intervention or from an old tome or something. Perhaps finding the last heir to the dead gods?

 

[Bardsandsages]

I don't consider that to be a plot hole: you don't need a car to invent the wheel.

Peter

True, but you do need the technology to create an engine before you can have the car to begin with. The fact is there needs to be some basic understanding of WHY the magic only works in this particular area first before moving forward with the rest of the idea. That has not been explained yet.

 

[AuraSeer]

The fact is there needs to be some basic understanding of WHY the magic only works in this particular area first before moving forward with the rest of the idea.

That's not a "fact", that's your opinion. Just because you want to start writing at that point, doesn't mean the OP has to.

Personally, I like to write campaigns by designing the state of the present world first, because that's what affects the PCs most. Then I work backward and invent history that would sensbly create the present state. The physical basis of the world (the source of magic, the mechanics of deity existence, etc.) may be the last thing I get to.

To create the OP's campaign, all he needs to start with is the three properties of the Ancient Mysterious Things: 1) they have the ability to generate a zone where magic works, 2) it's possible for a zone to go away, 3) it is possible that more zones will exist. He's got that far already. The exact details and mechanics of all that can come later, after he decides what will best serve the overarching plot.

Maybe the Mysterious Things are scientific devices built by a dead race, or fragments of a dead god who fell to earth, or naturally occurring weaknesses in the planar barriers, or maybe magic is generated by snarky posts on web discussion boards. It doesn't matter at this point, and it's certainly not a "fact" that this must be decided first.

 

[Bardsandsages]

That's not a "fact", that's your opinion. Just because you want to start writing at that point, doesn't mean the OP has to.

Personally, I like to write campaigns by designing the state of the present world first, because that's what affects the PCs most. Then I work backward and invent history that would sensbly create the present state. The physical basis of the world (the source of magic, the mechanics of deity existence, etc.) may be the last thing I get to.

To create the OP's campaign, all he needs to start with is the three properties of the Ancient Mysterious Things: 1) they have the ability to generate a zone where magic works, 2) it's possible for a zone to go away, 3) it is possible that more zones will exist. He's got that far already. The exact details and mechanics of all that can come later, after he decides what will best serve the overarching plot.

Maybe the Mysterious Things are scientific devices built by a dead race, or fragments of a dead god who fell to earth, or naturally occurring weaknesses in the planar barriers, or maybe magic is generated by snarky posts on web discussion boards. It doesn't matter at this point, and it's certainly not a "fact" that this must be decided first.

Looking at it from a "slap something together to muck around with" angle, you're right. I tend to look at things from a long term creating a campaign and/or fictional universe for general consumption angle. (nor am I implying that one angle is "better" than another...I'm simply explaining a viewpoint). My background is in creative writing, so the HOW something works is vital to making sure that an idea in consistent and sustainable throughout the story. But the how does dictate in many regards the rest of the concept. If the creator does not have a firm understanding of whatever mechanic creates the given scenario, it becomes increasingl difficult as a story unfolds to hold it together. I mentor a lot of young writers and I've run workshops on this sort of stuff. And the biggest problem I see is that writers (in general, not specifically DMs) come up with a cool idea without thinking through the hows and whys before moving forward. As they progress in their story, they find themselves scambling to make things believable, because they never had a firm handle on the basics of their world first.

So the initial posts asked us to poke holes in the plot. I basically need to understand more of the logic behind the scenario before I can do that. Without understanding the how and why of the magic dead zones, it's hard to say where their could eventually be a breakdown.

 

[Slife]

How's this for a reversal?

The "oracles" are actually the reason why magic doesn't work. They're incredibly magical structures which work to store and concentrate magic in some sort of condensed form, for harvesting by extraplanar beings (maybe the same as the invaders, maybe their enemies).

The invaders either want to take the spires back, destroy them, or harvest from them and leave (after ensuring that these magicless pests will be taken care of).

Why is there magic usable near the oracles?
The oracles draw in magic, but they themselves require magic to function and defend themselves, so there's a minimum range of effect. Or maybe they reradiate it or magic that is being drained is still usable - since the oracles are bringing the magic from far away to themselves, even though magic is being drained nearby the magic coming from other areas creates a stable zone where magic works.

Maybe the only spire that has magic working near it still drains magic, but can't store it (it could be full or damaged). The other spires are functioning perfectly.

 

[Zaruthustran]

I like that reversal idea. The one surviving Oracle is sort of like a sponge for magic. It soaks up all the water, sure--but in doing so, it gets wet.

So all the world's magic has been soaked up into this single location. Maybe the ancient builder(s) of the oracle decided magic was too dangerous, figured out that magic couldn't be destroyed, and so did the next best thing. Maybe the builder(s) didn't realize that there would be some leakage in the immediate vicinity of the Oracle.

I also like the idea that something goes wrong with the invaders' plans/their magic isn't 100% functional in the world. Maybe they rely on magic items, or they have their own oracles (sort of like wifi nodes for mages), or they go nuts when they make the translation. I do think it's cool that the invaders are themselves in jeopardy, and it helps make the world more real: any race capable of organised trans-planar invasion should also be capable of pulling it off without a hitch, barring glitches. Since you want the invasion to be a winnable conflict, you've got to introduce a glitch or two.

-z

 

[Felix]

I support the Alien use of Psionics in a world where magic doesn't work well; I recommend Mind Flayers, as they have a reputation for conquest and psionics.

And they eat brains. Always good motivation to fight them, eh?

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As for particular places where magic works, I recommend pulling from RIFTS and Stephen King's Dark Tower series: use ley lines.

Being an earth-centric magical force, ley lines allow you to utilize the druidic priesthood to both provide the PCs with magic and keep magic secret from the rest of the world. The druids know magic works, they know ley lines run all over the place, but they don't want magic to be used by the general population for fear of a magical arms race between nations. Perhaps this fear is grounded in a war centuries or millenia ago which destroyed most of civilization. They have allowed the power of the ley lines to wane to discourage the re-discovery of magic, and to prevent another cataclysm.

However, as preservers they have vast stores of knowledge about the use of magic, and their priesthood includes wizards, sorcerers, clerics and ... well, maybe bards too ... Of course everyone has one or two druid levels, but the different schools of magic can be kept alive by this secret and kept seperate from the outside world.

---

To bring in Stephen King, the mind flayers would be very interested in destroying the ley lines and any sites important to their continued existance so as to completely destroy the resistance made possible by magic. They would then be free to create portals into this world to establish beach-heads and conquer and enslave the populatoin.

---

The druids, aware of the mind flayer threat, seek to strengthen the nexuses and re-introduce magic to the world to produce a magical resistance powerful enough to thwart the alien menace. This would provide missions for the PCs to complete ranging from re-establishing nexuses, protecting existing nexuses, attacking Mind-flayer entry-points, courting kings to provide troops to combat the enemy, and generally avoiding having their brains turned into an appetizer.

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And for fun, you can run the PCs into a guerilla force of Githyanki, not particularly interested in helping the resident humanoids, but fiercely dedicated to harrying the mind flayers. Or perhaps a sojourn into the Astral by the PCs frees the mythical Gith and begins the war of the Githyanki and the Githzerai against the Illithids.

 

[Wraith Form]

I wasn't thinking aliens, but something from the planes.

Bah. if it was good enough for Howard (see Tower of the Elephant, et al) and Lovecraft (see....everything by him), it's good enough for me.