please rate my version of ranger class

[argo]

Well, based on the theory that you can't have too much of a good thing I thought that I should go ahead and trot out my take on the ranger. This is a project that a friend of mine, known as khorod on these boards, and I have been working on for a while and we would really appreicate any feedback/comments/criticism that the collective wisdom of the community might serve up. Before I give you the actual class here are some of the goals we had set out for ourselves when designing the class.
1) A non-magical ranger. This is mostly a flavor issue as neither of us is very fond of the quasi-mystical spellcasting ranger archtype. Instead this ranger is a warior who depends on speed, cunning, and superior skills aquired by hard living in the wilderness to carry the day.
2) Power wise we were shooting for a class stronger than the PHB ranger but not quite as over powered as Monte's Alt.Ranger (his old one, I haven't seen his new one yet).
3) Everybody seems to have a different idea what they want their ranger to look like, weither it is a dual wielding Drizzt clone or an archer fit to make Legolas cry or something else entirely. As a core class the ranger should be versatile enough to accommodate these different concepts.
4) At the same time we also wanted to take care of the problem with front loading/give an incentive to take a single-classed ranger into high levels.
5) We wantd to make sure that this ranger had a strong emphasis on the wilderness. On stalking, hunting, scouting, and surviving in the wild rather than just being a twinky fighter.
6) Finally I have never liked Favored Enemy as a mechanic and wanted to replace it with something else.

So without fruther delay, here is my atempt at an Alt.Ranger. Let me know what you think ENWorld.

Rangers have the following game statistics.

Abilities: As a creature of the wilderness, rangers make canny use of all their abilities. As a physically oriented individual Strength and Dexterity are both important, Dexterity more so because of the ranger’s tendency to wear light armor. Most rangers also make a practice of living a hard life in the wilds, and so have uncommonly good health and Constitution. Finally, a cunning ranger is a live ranger and so Intelligence should not be overlooked.

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d8.

BAB: As fighter.
Fort Save: Good.
Ref Save: Good.
Will Save: Poor.

The ranger’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Animal Empathy (Cha, exclusive skill), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex), and Wilderness Lore (Wis). See Chapter 4: Skills of Core Rulebook I for skill descriptions.

Skill Points at First Level: (6 + Int modifier) * 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.

All of the following are class features of the ranger.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, and with shields. Note that armor check penalties for armor heavier than leather apply to the skills Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, hide, Jump, move Silently, Pick Pocket, and Tumble. Also, Swim checks suffer a -1 penalty for every 5 pounds of armor and equipment carried.

Animal Companions: The ranger’s use of the Animal Empathy skill to befriend an animal allows him to maintain a number of animal companions whose Hit Dice total no more than his ranger level (though the demands of adventuring generally restrict a character to half that number).

Track: A ranger gains Track as a bonus feat (see Chapter 5: Feats of Core Rulebook I for feat descriptions).

Favored Terrain: At first level and every third level thereafter (4th, 7th, 10th, etc.) the ranger gains a Favored Terrain. Each time he must choose a particular terrain type from the following list: Artic, Cavern, Desert, Forest, Hills, Jungle, Mountains, Plains, or Swampland. At the GM’s option Aberrant (corrupted or cursed land), Aerial, Planar (choose one), Slums, Undersea, and Urban will also be available. Due to his extensive study of his chosen terrain the ranger benefits from a +2 bonus to Hide, Intuit Direction, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, and Wilderness Lore checks while within his terrain. Additionally, if a ranger is within his Favored Terrain and is wearing light armor or no armor he receives a +1 bonus to his Armor Class. A given Terrain type may be selected more than once and its bonuses will stack.
A ranger is considered to be within his Favored Terrain as long as he begins the round in a square of that terrain type. Artifical constructs (such as buildings, highways and the like) do not count as being of a terrain type unless they are overgrown- reclaimed by nature. An area which has been fortified or otherwise claimed as a living space by a creature of greater than animal intelligence also does not count as being of any terrain type (note: if the GM chooses to allow the special Terrain types Slums and Urban then only public spaces, such as the streets and alleyways, count as Terrain. The interior of someone’s house would be a “living space” and the interior of a castle would be a “fortified space”). Note that while highways do not count as natural terrain, trails and roads do. In all cases the GM has the final decision over what terrain type each square is composed of.
Since all terrains are unique they all slightly amend the Favored Terrain ability. Each Terrain type provides a different bonus. As with normal Terrain bonuses these bonuses only apply when the ranger is within his Favored Terrain and they stack with themselves should the ranger choose the same Favored Terrain more than once.

STANDARD TERRAINS

Artic:: Cold Resistance: 2*
Cavern, Jungle, or Mountains:: +2 bonus: Climb
Desert:: Heat Resistance: 2*
Forest or Hills:: +2 bonus: Animal Empathy
Plains:: +2 bonus: Ride
Swampland:: +1 bonus to Fort v. poison
*Stacks with all other energy resistance

SPECIAL TERRAINS
Aberrant:: +1 bonus to Will v. fear
Planar (choose one):: +2 bonus: Knowledge [the planes]
Aerial:: +2 bonus: Ride
Slums:: +2 bonus: Sense Motive
Undersea:: +2 bonus: Swim
Urban:: +2 bonus: Diplomacy


Example 1: A highway runs through the Black forest where Ean the forest ranger lies in wait to ambush the royal tax collector. Ean is hiding in the trees beside the highway when he sees the tax collector pass by and he decides to attack. He begins the round in a square designated as “Forest” and so gains the benefit of his Favored Terrain [Forest] bonus this turn while he charges out onto the highway and attacks. At the start of Ean’s turn on the second round he is in a square designated as “Highway” and so is denied the benefit of his Favored Terrain despite the fact that the forest is only a few feet away; he must now decide whether to retreat back to the forest, and gain the benefits of his Favored Terrain, or stay and fight on the highway.

Example 2: Sometime later Ean (who has now acquired Favored Terrain [Cavern]) ventures into an underground complex of natural caverns. In the first chamber he encounters a cave bear who has made this space its den. However the cave bear is only of animal intelligence and so Ean gains the benefit of his Favored Terrain bonuses during the encounter with the bear. The next chamber is also made of natural stone and in it Ean surprises a goblin patrol; because the entire chamber is a natural cave Ean once again gets his bonuses during the fight. Afterwards Ean backtracks the patrol’s trail and finds another natural chamber where the goblin band has set up camp. The intelligent humanoids have cleared away rubble, lit a campfire, laid out their packs and supplies, and dug a latrine in one corner. In short they have established this chamber as a “living space.” Ean cannot take advantage of his superior knowledge of caves while trying to dance around the goblin’s bedrolls and dirty laundry, he cannot take advantage of his Favored Terrain in this chamber. Later on Ean discovers a passageway which takes him into an adjoining tomb complex; the walls are made of hewn stone with flagstone floors and the inner chambers are closed off by heavy, locked doors. Even though it is currently uninhabited, this complex was built by intelligent creatures to keep others out. It is a “fortified” space and Ean is denied his Favored Terrain while within it.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level the ranger gains a bonus feat chosen from the following list: Alertness, Ambidexterity, Combat Reflexes, Dodge (Mobility, Spring Attack), Endurance, Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack), Favored Enemy, Improved Initiative, Mounted Combat (Mounted Archery, Trample, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge), Point Bank Shot (Far Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run), Power Attack (Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Sunder, Great Cleave), Run, Toughness, Two-Weapon Fighting (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting).

Trailblazing (Ex): At 5th level the ranger can move through the wilderness at great speeds. When crossing through one of his Favored Terrains the ranger moves through trackless terrain as though it was a trail and moves through trails and roads as if they were highways. If mounted the ranger extends this ability to his mount. Of course the restriction that trails cannot be used by vehicles remains (see pg. 143 of Core Rulebook I).
The ranger can also guide parties of travelers through the wilderness at the same great speed. In addition to himself and his mount the ranger can guide three other creatures per level of ranger. For the purposes of this ability a creature is an intelligent creature moving under its own power, a pack animal, a draft animal, or an animal companion; treat mounts and their riders as a single creature and familiars and their masters as a single creature. Thus a 5th level ranger could guide his five companions, each of them mounted, at increased speed through his Favored Terrain. However, he could not guide five men on foot and a pack mule as that would be six creatures. Two draft horses drawing a wagon with a dozen passengers count as two creatures.
Finally, the ranger is no longer hampered by rough or overgrown terrain. If moving through one of his Favored Terrains the ranger may move through natural (but not enchanted or magically manipulated) thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain at his normal speed and without suffering damage or other impairment. He cannot extend this ability to a mount or other travelers.

Improved Track (Ex): At 9th level the ranger’s skill at hunting and stalking begins to transcend physical limitations. He can now track a creature moving under the influence of pass without trace or a similar effect, albeit at a -10 circumstance penalty to his Wilderness lore checks.

Trackless Step: At the same time that the ranger learns how to track the untraceable he also begins to learn how to make himself untraceable. Beginning at 9th level a ranger leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked.


EDIT: Since this ranger has no spellcasting he needed another way to aquire animal companions. We settled on a new use of the Animal Empathy skill as you see below. This method also has the added benefit of being more roleplaying intensive as the player must encounter the animal in question repeatedly rather than simply cast a spell and get a new friend (of course if the GM wants he can just say the required encounters happen "off screen")

Befriend an Animal: DC (20 + Hit Die of animal). You win the loyalty of an animal, provided your heart is true. The check can succeed only if you actually wish to be the animal’s friend. If you are not willing to treat the animal as a friend (for example, you intend to eat it, or to use it to set off traps), the check will fail. This check requires one week per Hit Die of the animal you wish to befriend during which time you must encounter the animal at least once per week and each encounter must end without you doing any violence to the target animal. A successful check means that the animal will become a permanent, loyal animal companion.

You can teach the befriended animal three specific tricks or tasks for each point of Intelligence it possesses. Typical tasks include attacking, coming when called, guarding a place, and protecting a character. They cannot be complex (complex tricks, such as accepting a rider, require the Handle Animal skill).

At any one time, you can have only a certain number of animals befriended to you. At most, you can have animal friends whose Hit Dice total no more than twice your character level (though the demands of adventuring generally restrict a character to half that number).

Special: Druids receive a +4 bonus to Animal Empathy checks for purposes of befriending an animal.
Note: At the GM’s option he may substitute an animal’s CR for its Hit Dice if he feels that better represents the animal’s power and thus the difficulty involved in befriending it.



And as long as I'm at it I might as well show you the feat version of Favored Enemy. This is now a [General][Fighter] feat so you can still hate Orcs with a passion but if you think your ranger (or even fighter or warrior or whoever) is a border scout in the royal army he could hate the humans from the Kingdom Next Door

Favored Enemy [General][Fighter]
You are particularly adept at fighting against members of a particular race or background.

Prerequisites: Attack Bonus +1, Intelligence 12+

Benefit: Choose a type of enemy from the table below. Against this enemy you receive a +2 competence bonus to attack and damage rolls. You also receive this bonus to ranged attacks made against targets within 30 feet.

Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Each time it is take a new Favored Enemy must be selected.

The GM is encouraged to break the types of enemies that may be selected into even smaller sub-groups as may be appropriate. For example a player may not be able to take Favored Enemy [Dragons] but instead must take Favored Enemy [Red Dragons] or Favored Enemy [Green Dragons] also instead of taking Favored Enemy [Human] the player may be required to take a different Favored Enemy for each nation-state, such as Favored Enemy [North Kingdom].

Abberations
Animals
Beasts
Constructs
Dragons
Fey
Giants
Humanoids*
Magical Beasts
Oozez
Outsiders*
Plants
Shapechangers
Undead
Vermin

*you may not select humanoid or outsider but instead a specific type of humanoid or outsider


EDIT #2: Changed Trailblazing to be 3 creatures per ranger level instead of 1

EDIT #3: Changed Animal Companions to be a maximum HD of companions = ranger level.

 

[Khorod]

(Hey folks, this is my first look at the latest version, so lets go)

Edits & Critiques

Definitely gunna house rule Intuit Direction skill out of the playbook, but I suppose it can stay here for now.

I think maybe they should get medium armor back, but strip out large & tower shields- those are really for frontal attack tanks and formation fighting.

You doubled his animal companions. It should be his character level, and not more than half can adventure with him. And as a random musing, if you have a stable home base that other half of your animal buddies can be the home guard.
Edit in the 'Befriend an Animal' skill use, or at least give the DC formula.

Favored Terrain: It says 'while within his terrain' for the skill bonuses. Does it not stand to reason that an Oak tree somehow grown in a desert or a summoned forest-dwelling wolf might be susceptible to being climbed or handled as if he were in a forest?

In example 2, Ean enters that fortified tomb. Okay, so his ability to move quietly and hide and such loses there edge. But shouldn't his ability to pathfind or detect danger by listening to echoes or smell a bit of fresh air hold?
I suppose your Listen skill might have been trained in caverns, so the core skill ranks count, but not a bonus because the heightened difficulty of natural caverns, crevices, and talking fungal growths is not interfering...

Balance should probably be a favored terrain skill- holding position on ice, at the edge of a cliff, the top of a tree limb, and so on.

Favored Enemy slid into the bonus feat list. That's to get a little bonus against a Favored Enemy-type creature.

Trailblazing: By making it one critter per level, the Trailblazing skill doesn't help large groups. Just to be clear on this, if you had a group of experienced pathfinders (2nd level) then one-third your company of soldiers would have to be pathfinders to get trailblazing. A note about how scouting and trailblazing are not necessarily the same thing would be good.

Improved Track: Does Track without Step impose a penalty, or does it say 'leaves no trace and cannot be tracked'? I think this sort of thing should probably be a magic item... Maybe Improved Track should just be a bonus to Wilderness Lore and Search checks when tracking, the Ranger having had a moment of Zen-Enlightenment on the subject.

I think actually moving with trackless step should come a few levels later- before you can do it, you must understand it enough to see through it. It also is better, IMO to spread out the abilities.

 

[Khorod]

Extrapolations... Long and Getting Longer

Class Combos-
Barbarian/Ranger: Dwelling in the wilds, this might be a tribal hunt-leader, a wolf-raised (feralan) man who has lived by his instincts all his life, or a crazed huntsman that worships and immitates the grizzly bear...

Gains: Barbarian Speed, Rage, and Hit Points
Loses: Skill Points, Reflex Save, Some Skills, Some Feats, Some Favored Terrains, Slower gain in Animal Companions.


Fighter/Ranger: Perhaps a hillman who comes to the city to get serious about perfecting his swordwork, or perhaps a highlands warleader who must change from a guerilla fighter to a general in defending a fort. Or maybe a special ops 'light infantry' that scatters, skulks through the woods, regroups at the mission site, and similarly scatters to leave again- leaving no trace and no one party to track.

Gains: Bonus Feats, Hit Points
Loses: Same stuff as Barbarian, except feat loss is unimportant, and key skills are now ALL cross-class.


Rogue/Ranger: The ultimate scout, this ranger has only one or two terrains, but within them is hard to catch, harder to surprise, and hardest to hit. Combining Uncanny Dodge with his terrain dodge bonus is an amazing duo.

Gains: Sneak Attack, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion
Loses: Hit Points, Fort Save, Wilderness Lore, Ranger Stuff


Druid/Ranger: A nature-mystic and defender of the natural order. This ranger might be part of the martial arm of a druidic circle, or perhaps is just a warrior who has a building connection to Gaia.

Gains: Spellcasting, Wild Shape, Various Druidy Abilities, Will Save
Loses: Reflex Save, Attack Roll, Ranger Abilities


Well, that was pretty boring, but I wanted to run through it real fast out loud

______________________________

Prestige Classes- Because every Core Class, or significant variant thereof, needs some ideas for tailored PrC's...


The Survivor/Wilderunner: Alone in the wilds of his choosing...
Reqs/Skills: Wilderness Lore 8 ranks, Hide 5 ranks, Craft[trapmaking] 5 ranks
Feats: Track & (Toughness or Endurance)

Good: Attack, Fort & Reflex Saves, HD: d10, Skill Points: 2.
Skills: Craft, Wilderness Lore, Hide, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Listen, Climb, Balance
Uncanny Dodge: At first level, ala advancing rogue or starting new.
Survival Favored Terrain: Choose a terrain off the Ranger's Favored Terrain table. This is your specialized survival terrain. At 2nd and 5th level, you gain Favored Terrain in that terrain.
Tough as Nails & Twice as Smart: 3rd level. Add +2 circumstance bonus to saves while in chosen terrain.
Unkillable: Damage Reduction 10/- at 4th level.

I think this needs heavy tweaking. Maybe Survival Instinct would be a good ability for the ranger itself?

Homeland Protector: Master of a specific realm. [NPC]
Reqs/Skills: Wilderness Lore 8 ranks, Knowledge[local]: 5 ranks
Feats: Track & Weapon Focus
Favored Terrain: At least half the major terrain in your Home Terrain.

Good: Attack, Fort, HD: d10, Skill Points: 2.
Skills: Craft, Wilderness Lore, Hide, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Listen, Climb, Knowledge[local], Profession, Ride
Home Terrain: You gain Favored Terrain in a specific region at 1st, 3rd, and 5th level. This include Diplomacy, Knowledge[local], and Gather Information, as well as the usual skills. Your home terrain may be 10 square miles per level x your Intelligence bonus (or 1, whichever is greater).
Internal Compass: You cannot get lost within your home terrain, even because of magic. Gained at 2nd level.
Allies in Nature: You may Speak with Animals at will in your home terrain. Gained at 4th level.

The regional protector is always floating around...


Knight of the Tree: A warrior-priest dedicated to protecting a great tree, monolith, or other immobile power of nature.
Reqs/Skills: Wilderness Lore 8 ranks, Knowledge[religion]: 5 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks.
Feats: Track
Spellcasting: Cleric- 2nd level, plant domain; Druid- 2nd level.

Good: Attack, Reflex & Will, HD: d8, Skill Points: 4.
Skills: Craft, Wilderness Lore, Hide, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Listen, Climb, Knowledge[local], Profession, Ride, Knowledge[religion], spellcraft, concentration.
Spellcasting: Advance spellcasting at 2nd and 4th level.
Circle Combat: Gained at 1st level. When fighting with allies in a circle, whenever one does the Aid another action, it passes up the circle, with each member deciding to take the assistance or pass it up. The last person before the originator is helped if all pass it on. No more people can be in a circle than twice the highest level Knight.
Favored Terrain: At 3rd level, must select what your order is dedicated to- Tree of Life might be in the forest, etc.
Final Circle Defense: To protect their immobile god (etc), the Knights can form a circle around it an use there weapons, magic, and most importantly, there bodies to protect the tree. They may take a full round action and give up there dexterity/dodge bonuses. These bonuses are applied as Deflection bonuses to whatever is in the center of the circle (or behind a lone Knight, etc.). Also, their Relfex bonus is passed along. This requires the being in the center to make no physical move to defend themselves or get to safety.


Raid-Marine: A seaside & sailing-ship skirmisher, this man is a navigator and scout who can lead attacks against shorelines, or fight in the rigging like its his own backyard.
Reqs/Skills: Wilderness Lore 5 ranks, Swim 5 ranks, Profession[sailor] 5 ranks, Knowledge[astronomy] 5 ranks.
Attack: +5

Good Attack
D10 Hit Dice, Good Ref, Good Fort.
4 skill ranks per level.

Soaked & Fighting (Ex): The Raid-Marine can fight while sopping wet with no penalties. They cannot make attacks of opportunity until they are sufficiently dry. (This ability assumes some dexterity & attack roll penalty for being wet, sorry, no books with me...)

Home by the Sea (Ex): At 1st level, the Raid-Marine gains bonuses as per Favored Terrain along the shoreline and on sailing vessels. This bonus is compounded at 3rd level.

Navigator Unparalleled: At 2nd level, gain a +4 bonus to Knowledge[astronomy], & Profession[sailor] to navigate/chart a course.

Clash at Sea (Ex): At 5th level, you threaten squares that are below you and to either side below or next to you.


Character Concept
The Man in Tights: A rebel taken to the forest, he has skills in ambushes, defending the residents of a wilderness location, and a bit of sniping.
I originally thought of this as a PrC. After a while I realized that no particularly good special abilities occurred to me. That's a sure sign that it should not be a class. Better yet, its a ranger/rogue with a bit of Perform. Oh well.

The Cloudtopper: Following up on the Aerial special terrain, this character has been called by the Air Lords to defend the skies. Or perhaps has been endowed by Storm Giants to be a special protector of long-lost cloud cities. Regardless, he gets things like feather fall, air walk, gust of wind, and so on, as well as trusty flying companions.
I simply don't think its a worthwhile PrC. There is too much for myself and all of you to do to look at an extra PrC. Something like this would be good IMC, so maybe I'll work one out at some point and give it its own thread.

The Purifier: Also based on a special terrain, this time Aberrant, this class requires some spellcasting. The character gain bonuses against Aberrations, dispelling magic, and removing taints on the natural world.
This could be a cool PrC. I wonder if blight magic or something in one of the Rokugan books doesn't have something akin to this? I would require the ability to cast Dispel Evil or Magic, the class would have its own spellcasting table and list, as well as various bonuses to saving throws and divination abilities. It would probably be of limited usefulness unless there was a major 'aberrant region' in the campaign setting.

Edit: Clarified & Detailed Ideas

 

[argo]

Hey buddy, glad you cold stop by so lets get right to the meat of things.

Definitely gunna house rule Intuit Direction skill out of the playbook, but I suppose it can stay here for now.

Yeah I remember we talked about that but I wanted to keep this presentation of the class as close to core rules as possible. Interweaving it with house rules would make it too cumbersome at this point.

I think maybe they should get medium armor back, but strip out large & tower shields- those are really for frontal attack tanks and formation fighting.

About shields: nobody else breaks shileds up into sub-groups, you either get em or you don't and I don't see any reason to complicate things like that. Its not such a big deal anyway, tower shield or no tower shield. About medium armor: I don't know, I've been thinking about that one a lot. I would really like to know what others on the board think about that, does a ranger deserve medium armor or would that make him over-powered?

You doubled his animal companions. It should be his character level, and not more than half can adventure with him. And as a random musing, if you have a stable home base that other half of your animal buddies can be the home guard.
Edit in the 'Befriend an Animal' skill use, or at least give the DC formula.

Yes this ranger gets more animal companions than the PHB ranger, I think that that is part of his balance.

Favored Terrain: It says 'while within his terrain' for the skill bonuses. Does it not stand to reason that an Oak tree somehow grown in a desert or a summoned forest-dwelling wolf might be susceptible to being climbed or handled as if he were in a forest?

I have deliberately left it up to the individual GM to decide exactly what combination of atributes makes a given section of map count as a terrain type. All this really requires is that the GM draw a line on the map/battlemat and tell the players that on one side of the line they are in terrain x and on the other they are in terrain y and then let the players decide where they want to stand.

In example 2, Ean enters that fortified tomb. Okay, so his ability to move quietly and hide and such loses there edge. But shouldn't his ability to pathfind or detect danger by listening to echoes or smell a bit of fresh air hold?
I suppose your Listen skill might have been trained in caverns, so the core skill ranks count, but not a bonus because the heightened difficulty of natural caverns, crevices, and talking fungal growths is not interfering...

Heh, the important thing to gather from this example is not the specifics of Favored Terrain [Cavern] but that you loose favored terrain bonuses in spaces which are "living space" or "fortified" regardless of their other characteristics. The in game reason for this is that Favored Terrain bonuses rely on your familiarity with the terrain (at least in a general fashion) and how can you be familiar with a space that some other intelligent creature has sculpted to his taste? The out of game reason for this is to prevent any player from taking what ammounts to Favored Terrain [Dungeon] Perhaps this section was not clear enough and needs to be rewriten?

Balance should probably be a favored terrain skill- holding position on ice, at the edge of a cliff, the top of a tree limb, and so on.

Hmmm, interesting. I wonder what everyone else thinks?

Trailblazing: By making it one critter per level, the Trailblazing skill doesn't help large groups. Just to be clear on this, if you had a group of experienced pathfinders (2nd level) then one-third your company of soldiers would have to be pathfinders to get trailblazing. A note about how scouting and trailblazing are not necessarily the same thing would be good.

You are right that trailblazing and scouting are not the same thing. And the purpose of this ability is to lead relatievly small groups as I don't think that one ranger, no matter how good, could lead hundreds of people across trackless wilderness at an improved speed. You would need multiple guides for that. Although note that by the example you could still lead a "wagon train" since passangers in a vehicle don't count towards number of creatures guided (because you only have to find a path for their mounts, they are just along for the ride). Still maybe it should be 2 creatures per level? Or 3?

Improved Track: Does Track without Step impose a penalty, or does it say 'leaves no trace and cannot be tracked'? I think this sort of thing should probably be a magic item... Maybe Improved Track should just be a bonus to Wilderness Lore and Search checks when tracking, the Ranger having had a moment of Zen-Enlightenment on the subject.

Trackless Step works just as the Druid ability (maybe I should've said that). As for changing the way Imporved Track works, I still want the ranger to spend skill points on Wilderness Lore and Search. The purpose here is to allow a high level ranger to track people who have tried to hid their trail with magic such as pass without trace. I have always thought it stupid that a 20th level ranger can't track a 3rd level druid because of Trackless Step. Now people with such abilities are still immune from low level trackers and they put a high level ranger under a -10 penalty but a high level ranger can at least attempt it.


Ok, so I have your thoughts on it but what about everybody else? I would dearly love to hear what everyone thinks. Just, you know, to see if I am out of my mind with this class or what.

 

[Khorod]

Well, if the ranger gets doubled companions through the 'Befriend an Animal' skill use, does that mean Druids get three times or 4 times there level in companions?

Seems that reworking the Druid is the next step...

Okay with tracking druids. Getting Trackless Step should be 3-5 levels later. In game: He must be able to see how it is done to do it himself. It is easier to watch than to do it. Out of Game: Making 9th level not overbalanced. Also, its nice that he can track a Druid, but the Druid can be skilled enough to Track the ranger in return. [evil laughter]


Edit: Addin' thoughts on the trackin' abilities.

 

[Steverooo]

Argo-Rangers

Howdy! We've got quite a discussion going under "Rangers: Leave them alone?"... y'all should come join us!

As for the non-magical Argo-Ranger, here're my thoughts:

Hit dice go down from D10 to D8. All spell use is lost. Medium armor use is lost. The Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting pseudo-feats are lost. Favoured Enemies are lost.

Good Reflex saves are gained. +2 skill points/level (eight, at first level) are gained. Terrain Bonuses are gained.

At higher levels, a few bonus feats are gained, "Trailblazing" (which really needs a better, more descriptive name), Trackless Step, and the should-be-unneeded Improved Track are gained.

If you assume that Favoured Terrains cancels Favoured Enemies, then the Ranger is still taking a major loss, overall. He gets two plusses, and suffers four losses.

The Favoured Terrain system also has some holes in it. Quick: What terrain type is the moon?

Terrain type is a combination of several things: temperature, topography (physical features), geography, and such characteristic as the presence or absence of certain environmental conditions. Suppose that you are in a forest in the arctic. Is that the Artic terrain, the Forest terrain, or both? What if you're on an island covered in jungle?

There are three basic temperature zones: Hot, Temperate, and Cold.

Next, there is the terrain feature, or elevation: Mountains, Hills, Broken, and Flat.

Finally, there is the topography, or what is covering the terrain. Usually, this will either be Barren (rocks, etc.), a predominance of areas-producer plants (such as grasses), a predominance of point-producers (such as trees), or a mix of the two. The regions where area-producers dominate are your Plains. The regions where point-producers predominate are your Forests, with little undergrowth. The regions where there is a mixture of both are called Woods, Rain Forests, or Jungles, depending upon where they grow. To avoid such confusion, just call it "Mixed". Some people will argue that Rain Forests are Forests, others Jungle. Don't go there, just call it Mixed.

Next are the environmental factors, such as the presence or absence of water... If water is absent, you have a desert. (Yes, you can have cold deserts; the temperature doesn't matter!) If you have enough water, you will have some form of plant life. Depending upon the terrain, if you have TOO MUCH water, it will run off a mountain, or some hills. In hills surrounded by mountains, or relatively flat regions, you will have a Swamp. If there's even more water, you will have the Aquatic "terrain" that you left out, and with even more water, the Submarine!

Another environmental factor to consider is air. You could have a "Space" terrain, although the Argo-Ranger won't live long enough to explore it, without spells! This is also where your Aerial one fits in.

Of course, all this applies to other Planes, as well. I don't know if I would have an "Aberant" descriptor, or not. Other Planes will be freaky enough, and even if a Flat, Temperate Forest is cursed, I would still count it as FTFor, not Aberrant.

That leaves your Cavern and Urban/Slum (which I would combine into one).

Now some folks might try to make special cases for things like the Moon, saying that it's cratered, or for Hawaii, saying that it's volcanic peaks. That's okay, volcanoes are just mountains or hills, and cratered terrain is whatever it was before, just Broken, now (so the moon is Hot/Cold, Broken Barrens, to answer the question).

So now you see the problem with "Favoured Terrain"... Too many of'em! Hot, Barren, Flat, little water (Desert). Hot, Barren, Flat, some water (Badlands), Hot, Plains, Hills, little water (dried heath)... How many combinations are there? Even discounting the man-made one, too many!

I have to agree with some others that Favoured Terrains is little (some) better than Favoured Enemies. It does, indeed, pigeonhole the Ranger (although the chances of encountering a Temperate, Hilly Forest with enough water are much more likely than encountering a singular critter-type). One of the assumptions that I started with was that Rangers RANGE, and thus that they are the "man for all terrains". As such, I see tying Favoured Terrains to level as a definite negative!

As for Animal Companions, I am against them. I had a Dire Wolf, once... Raised him from a pup. Left him to guard the horses... Thhhwhip! One poisoned arrow later, no more wolf. Only animal companions I would want would be a BIG cat (with 5+ attacks/round!) or a horse (and I'd rather have Boots of Striding and Springing). Furthermore, I don't buy the WL attracting twice as many animals as Animal Friendship... If ya wanna give'm animal companions, go ahead, just make it a class ability.

Trailblazing does, indeed, allow leading too few, needs a better name, and a simpler explanation. Nice ability, though.

The Favoured Enemy Feat, like the 3e Ranger ability, is too restrictive. Favoured Enemy (Drow)? That isn't even a species! It's a sub-species! Bad enough when you have to restrict it to "Lizardoids". Sorry, I don't like the feat version, either.

As for the Improved Track ability, it shouldn't even be needed (and won't be, in any game I run)! Pass Without Trace (1e PHB:55) required burning a leaf of mistletoe, scattering the ashes, then waving a sprig of evergreen as though wiping out the tracks. AFTER THAT, the area affected radiated magic foe 6-36 hours, allowing a Ranger on his guard to figure out what had happened (with Detect Magic), and find the area covered. A simple perimeter search (and Track check) allowed the Ranger to pick up the trail where they left it (assuming they had, and not by extraordinary means).

Nowadays, "Trackless Tracking" might be required, but it still irks me. Good ability, I guess, but bad call by WotC on revamping the spell!

All in all, a fairly good job, but it still seems a bit weaker, IMHO. If your players like it, go ahead.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

I second everything Steverooo said about favored terrains.
.
.
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Also, instead of ever playing a ranger, I'd play a fighter and take these FEs, in descending order of preference:

Undead
Constructs
Evil Outsiders
Aberrations
Magical Beasts
Dragons
Giants

The Undead and Construct FEs are especially powerful, since it is so damn difficult to do extra damage against these types. (Since Imp. Crit and Keen are worthless against them.)

 

[Khorod]

Steveroo,

Favored Terrains more than cancels out Favored Enemy.
Assuming you can identify a Forest as such, when your in it you always have those skill bonuses, and the dodge bonus.

As far as Rangers ranging, I totally agree. But if you look at all the ranger folks in the real world, they are not equally good everywhere. Such people are exceptional in a small handful of environments, and particularly, especially talented in there own backyard, where previous experience and knowledge of the ground helps... This system was designed around being able to become a 'Lord of the Forest' or to be a wanderer who gains advantages in many different types of places. Remember, with his bumped up skills a ranger is still a master at ranging everywhere- with a maxed out Wilderness Lore he is still a master tracker wherever he goes.

As far as different terrains go forest, hills, and such are fantasy staples. The DM must decide if a given environment counts as Jungle or Forest, and if you have an Arctic Forest, the DM must adjudicate which whether the skill check or combat at hand uses the forest or the arctic surroundings to greater effect.

If you have a more specific terrain, like the Salt Marsh Peaks of the Souther Shore, well, that's a small area. That's where you find the native guide that has mastered this area, and doesn't much leave. While there, he is deadly. And generally speaking, a ranging PC shouldn't be specializing in such areas, they don't come up much (again, in a European-type environment). If you want more terrains, they're easy enough to add on. But when speaking of terrains, they're needs to be some generalization, as with everything else in this game.

These terrains require the DM to make these decisions, instead of finding reasons to include goblinoids in every game.

The Favored Enemy feat, in one form or another, is an attempt to get a balanced feat that can partially make it up to those people that like that ability. It makes sense to specialize in fightning a particular creature and gain a bonus against it. Just as it makes sense to specialize in a particular weapon and gain a bonus with that. Favored Enemy is about understanding a creature's inborn weaknesses and tactics. Against humanoids, it is even more an understanding of tactics and psychology. But this feat should be +1 to attack and damage.

The Animal Companion ability assumes a very important thing. That the Animal Friendship spell does not exist. That should have been mentioned before.

Just to go back to terrains, since in looking over your comments I saw a couple more to react to... the Moon terrain is Cratered Rock Plains, or whatever. It is most certainly an exotic locale and thus no ranger would be comfortable there. Of course, he would still be able to track and survive, though since it is SOO alien, it might even be at a penalty. If the ranger stayed there for awhile, and mastered the nuances of airless, gravity-light, barren living, he could indeed gain Favored Terrain(space-rocks).

And since Aberrant was my own brain-child, I was not thinking of outer planes or a simply cursed forest. I was thinking of a really messed up place where the waters run purple, the oak trees want to eat your marrow, and the squirrels are all illithid-kin. We are talking ABERRANT. If you want to call that an Aberration-pocket-plane within the material realm, that's okay. The idea was that it was an unnatural place a ranger can specialize it working to repair, rather than an alien place the ranger can be part of as a defender of its alien but natural order.

ConcreteBuddha,
A fighter with favored enemy's would be cool. That fact that the phb is a couple spells and wilderness lore skill away from that is why I think a new ranger is needed. There is nothing wrong with having a character who does the Favored Enemy thing though.

To Whom it May Concern,
I don't want to have to play a ranger with magic. Its hard to take the magic out of a character. I prefer to start non-magical and add Druid levels.

Based on how I have every played or DMed, this class is stronger than the one in the PHB.

 

[argo]

Re: Argo-Rangers

Howdy! We've got quite a discussion going under "Rangers: Leave them alone?"... y'all should come join us!

Howdy to you too. Think I will stop by later today.

If you assume that Favoured Terrains cancels Favoured Enemies, then the Ranger is still taking a major loss, overall. He gets two plusses, and suffers four losses.

When I wrote this class I estimated Favored Terrain to be more powerful than Favored Enemy because so long as you are in your terrain (which cold be quite a large area depending) you always get your bonuses in every encounter, not to mention that I think a +1 bonus to AC is worth more than a +1 to damage. I also gave my ranger 7 Favored Terrains compared with 5 Favored Enemies.

But you estimate Favored Terrain to, at best, be equal to Favored Enemy. OK, I'm interested in balance here (it is very hard to balance a handful of special abilities against the incredible flexibility offered by spellcasting). That is one vote for Favored Terrain being to weak. What does everyone else thnk?

I also seem to attach a greater value to a good Ref save than you do. Again, I would like to hear more voices so that I can get a consensus on this.

The Favoured Terrain system also has some holes in it. Quick: What terrain type is the moon?

Terrain type is a combination of several things: temperature, topography (physical features), geography, and such characteristic as the presence or absence of certain environmental conditions. Suppose that you are in a forest in the arctic. Is that the Artic terrain, the Forest terrain, or both? What if you're on an island covered in jungle?

<snip>

Well I think you are making this more complicated than it really has to be (or was to begin with). For starters let me say that I didn't pull the basic terrain types out of thin air but from table 4-37 of the DMG (I added Caverns and the special terrain types myself). If you really want a level of detail to include such as cold hills, temperate hills, and warm hills then you could raid table 4-38 which goes into more detail but I, like you, think that would be too many terrains.

However this cursory examination of the issue misses an important point. I gave the terrain types only a general name for a reason: in the fantasy genre almost any terrain type is possible, it would be impossible for me to try and cover every possible permutation not to mention also pointless to put that kind of restriction on the GM. Maybe you run a globetroting campagin where it is enough to know if the characters are in a desert or a forest. Maybe you run a campagin in historical western eurpoe and the difference between a cold forest and a temperate forest is a big deal. Maybe you run a campagin where the PC's regularly visit the moon and so you need to add Favored Terrain [Lunar Surface] to the list. The GM should already have a prety good idea of what kind of terrains will appear in his campagin, if he needs a special purpose terrain he can add it to the list (and maybe drop those that don't appear, like desert in a european campagin) like the rest of the d20 system the favored terrain mechanic is modular and I think that is a virtue.

And as far as your question about what if you are in a jungle on an island, that is really another permutation of khorod's "what if a oak tree is growing in the desert" and the answer is the same. When the GM preps an encounter he is going to want to draw up at least a rough map of the area, get an idea of where the hazards are, the cover, the monsters, etc. Now he also decides what terrain type the area is (which again, he should arleady have a prety good idea if the encounter happens in a forest or whatever) and draw a line on the map if/where that terrain changes. Simple really.

One of the assumptions that I started with was that Rangers RANGE, and thus that they are the "man for all terrains". As such, I see tying Favoured Terrains to level as a definite negative!

Interesting. But one of my goals was to make a class flexible enough to meet many different character concepts. My ranger gets 7 Favored Terrains. If you want a "man for all terrains" then take 7 different terrains and you have a well traveled world explorer. Put all 7 into a single terrain and you have a "Lord of the [insert terrain here]". Or you could take 3 or 4 bonuses in one terrain and 1 or 2 in several others and then you have a ranger who favors a home base but is familiar with the other lands around him.

As for Animal Companions, I am against them. I had a Dire Wolf, once... Raised him from a pup. Left him to guard the horses... Thhhwhip! One poisoned arrow later, no more wolf. Only animal companions I would want would be a BIG cat (with 5+ attacks/round!) or a horse (and I'd rather have Boots of Striding and Springing). Furthermore, I don't buy the WL attracting twice as many animals as Animal Friendship... If ya wanna give'm animal companions, go ahead, just make it a class ability.

I guess this is just a difference of opinion. I think that animal companions are an important part of the ranger flavor. Also, about rangers getting "twice as many animal companions" I think there is a misunderstanding here. From the spell Animal Friendship

At any one time, you can have only a certain number of animals befriended to you. At most, you can have animal friends whose Hit Dice total no more than twice your caster level (though the demands of adventuring generally restrict a character to half that number).

A PHB ranger has fewer animal companions than a druid because the PHB ranger's caster level is his ranger level -3. I let my ranger use his full ranger level which _IS_ more than the PHB ranger gets but not nearly "double" (I don't know where that idea got introduced into the debate). He is still subject to that clause about "demands of adventuring" so what he winds up with is a maximum number of animal companions equal to the druid but I gave the druid a +4 bonus for purposes of befriending an animal meaning that, at any given level, the druid can befriend a more powerful animal. Is this unbalancing? Should the ranger have fewer HD of companions than the druid even when you take into account that the druid gets better companions?

Trailblazing does, indeed, allow leading too few, needs a better name, and a simpler explanation. Nice ability, though.

OK, I'm convinced. I'm going to change Trailblazing to 3 creatures per ranger level. So a 5th level ranger could guide a squad of 15 other soldiers on a flanking attack and a 10th level ranger could guide a group of 30 pilgrims. If you take into account the clause that riders in a wagon don't cout, only the draft animals, then you cold also lead a wagon train without much diffculty. Is this balanced do you think? And as for a name, I don't think "Trailblazing" is any worse than some other wierd ability names but maybe I could change it to something like "Wilderness Guide" to emphasize the guide aspect over the scout aspect? Or maybe "Pathfinder"? Any other great ideas?

As for the Improved Track ability, it shouldn't even be needed (and won't be, in any game I run)! Pass Without Trace (1e PHB:55) required burning a leaf of mistletoe, scattering the ashes, then waving a sprig of evergreen as though wiping out the tracks. AFTER THAT, the area affected radiated magic foe 6-36 hours, allowing a Ranger on his guard to figure out what had happened (with Detect Magic), and find the area covered. A simple perimeter search (and Track check) allowed the Ranger to pick up the trail where they left it (assuming they had, and not by extraordinary means).

Again, I wanted a class that was core rules friendly. Also when I added Improved Track it was because I wanted an ability that was both "cool" and had "ranger flavor" without being really powerful because I estimated that the class was already powerful enough. When the royal councilor comes to you and says "this outlaw is using magic to hide himself from pursuit, only YOU can find him!" Well, that is cool and makes the player feel good to be a ranger. Or you could reverse the scenario and send a high level ranger after the players who think that they are safe because they magically hid their tracks and now you have a case of Butch Casidy and the Sundance Kid: "who ARE those guys?!!" Do you have a good idea for a different ability like that? One that is "cool" has "ranger flavor" but is only of minor power? I'd love to hear about it.

Wow, this post turned out to be really long. Thank you for your comments Steverooo and I hope to hear from the rest of you guys too. This has already helped me a lot.

 

[Khorod]

Trailblazing:
I think Pathfinding would be a perfectly good name. Maybe 'Trailblazing' could be something wilderness folk could do- spend one day to make a mile of wilderness into a rough trail. With a successful Wilderness Lore check.

In game, it doesn't make much sense that the two draft horses pulling a wagon count as two creatures. They are essentially a single unit as long as they are tied up and working together. Maybe each vehicle, rider & mount, and and independentally moving creature should be counted. So a 10th level ranger is leading say 20 wagons and 10 mounted guards.


Animal Companions:
Ranger's use half there class level for caster level.
So yes, it is double.

And IMO the Druid should get more animal companions- I think the Druid is more likely to have a higher bonus for ability scores, and should be able to fill his realm with animal eyes and ears.

It is definitely the case that the gaining companions with Empathy is not balanced against Animal Friendship as it exists in the PHB. I suppose Animal Friendship could be kept as a spell- it should do something like give a +10 to the attempt and cause the animal to be taken instantly.

Of course, some rangers will want a small army of wolves at there back, and other rangers will not want any. So the ranger has to be reasonably balanced both with a full roster of companions and none. That's a vote for reducing the Animal Companions to his level again. And maybe adding another small ability to keep things balanced.

I think I'll check out those other threads and see if there are any ideas for such abilities...

TTFN