Please review these Knowledge skills for balance

Kershek

Sci-Fi Newshound
Here are some knowledge skills for which I would like feedback. Do you like them? Would you get ranks in them? Are they unbalanced?

For instance, the first skill, Knowledge 'Monsters', fills a big gap in trying to determine if the character has seen a monster before. Sure, you could assume that if they haven't seen it before they don't know anything about it, but that's pretty silly. You can't go off of player knowledge, which increases the longer you participate in campaigns. So, instead, we made up a skill that determines on the spot if a character has heard of such a monster in the past.


Knowledge 'Monsters'. Each Knowledge skill would be like the list of "favored enemy" of the Ranger class. So "Knowledge: Animals", "Knowledge: beast", "Knowledge: Undead", etc...
The skill would give you the chance to know about the monster. The DC would be 10 plus the monster's CR (+DM mod for low light, bad view, rarity, etc…). Making the roll would let you know what the monster was. Making it by at least 5 points would let you know something about its attacks (energy drain, poison, etc...), feats, and/or spell like powers. Making it by at least 10 points would know its attacks and weakness. Making the roll by +15 gives a +1 dodge bonus to AC. Making the roll by +20 gives a +1 to hit. A +2 synergy bonus would be given if you had fought it before. In class for all classes. It requires book time and the ability to read. You cannot take 10 with this skill.

Knowledge: Close Combat (Int)
In class for fighter classes. 5 ranks lets you teach any feat you know (does not give extra feats) to someone else. 5 ranks also lets you negate 1 point of bonus of one feat you know that is used against you (power attack, weapon focus, expertise, etc...). 10 ranks lets you negate all of two feats you know that are used against you. 15 ranks lets you negate 3 feats. Animal based natural feats do not count. Training required. Only works vs feats that give plus bonus to attack or AC. Example: You are fighting a Ranger that is using the ‘dodge’ feat against you (you know the dodge feat and have 5 ranks). The +1 AC dodge bonus is negated since you know the fighting style so well. You can not use against weapon proficiency or fighting abilities, only a bonus. (Dodge, Mobility, etc…). Another Example: You are fighting someone with the Weapon Focus: Longsword and you have Weapon Focus: Longsword with Knowledge: Close Combat at 5 ranks. You can use this skill to negate the fighter's +1 to hit from the Weapon Focus feat. If the fighter had Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, however, this skill wouldn't work since it is a different focus than what you have.

Knowledge: Art of War (Int)
In class for fighter classes. 5 ranks gives the player some time to "talk" to other players about what to do next, beyond character based 'yelled' commands like "flank him" or "shoot" or "run" or "charge" (only the player with the feat can talk). 10 ranks plus 5 ranks in ‘Knowledge: close combat’ negates the feats 'weapon focus' for the spear (long and short) and flail (light and heavy). 15 ranks plus 10 ranks in ‘Knowledge: Close combat’ negates ‘Weapon focus: lance (light and heavy) and war hammer’. Training required.

Knowledge: Siege Weapons (Int)
1 rank lets you use a siege weapon (must pick which one) even with a crew that does not have any skill ranks (an Int role will be used otherwise). 5 ranks lets you use Archery feats for siege weapons and all types of siege weapons. Ranks add to your 'to hit' at a rate of 1/3. So 3 ranks gives a +1 to hit (range attack bonus do not stack with indirect fire siege weapons such as catapults). In class for all fighter classes. Must be instructed to start. Practice needed to add ranks. (Siege weapon types: mounted Arbalest, sm. & lg. ballista, sm., lg. catapults, trebs, siege ongers.)

Craft: Trap making
Lets you make traps but also gives you a +2 synergy bonus to trap searches and disable traps if you have 5 ranks. +2 synergy bonus to 'Wilderness lore' for food/fur "trapping"

Profession: Locksmith
Lets you make keys for locks but also gives you a +2 synergy bonus to open lock skill if you have 5 ranks.
 

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Kershek said:
Here are some knowledge skills for which I would like feedback. Do you like them? Would you get ranks in them? Are they unbalanced?

Knowledge 'Monsters'
I like the actual knowledge applications, and I can see how it'd be *very* useful with players who can't manage to keep the IC/OOC distinction. This part of it gets a Thumbs Up. You might also want to consider some form of "common legend" modifiers, as some monsters with high CRs (like Dragons) will have relatively well-known abilities, with the converse also true.

The high-end benefits though (to AC and Hit), are Bad Things, IMO. No other skill that I'm aware of grants this kind of benefit.
Also, I'd treat this just like all knowledges skills - book learning is book learning, and fighters are ignorant louts. :) Some synergy bonuses *might* be in order, but that's it.

Knowledge: Close Combat (Int)
Umm... this would be a Very Bad Thing. I might need to underline and bold that last. It *could* conceivably work as a feat chain, but NOT as a skill.

Knowledge: Art of War (Int)
No.

Knowledge: Siege Weapons (Int)
This would *definitely* be better represented as a Feat Chain.

Craft: Trap making
Have you looked at FFG's Traps&Treachery? Or Song&Silence? There are some very similar skills in both. Otherwise, it's fine, though I'd probably drop the Wilderness Lore synergy.

Profession: Locksmith
Not bad.

Personally, I believe that having something extra should give the character a Bonus, not everyone else a penalty. And that skills should only grant bonuses to other skills, and only bonuses based on skill ranks, not roll results.

Not that these aren't valid game mechanics, it's just that I don't believe they fit with the 3e design.
 

Knowledge 'Monsters'.
Hmm (as said by the previous poster) great idea for helping guide in character verus ooc knoweledge. I am having a little difficulty with the higher up portions of this skill though. The reason being is that this makes this set of knowledge skills vastly superior to any other knowledge skill - no other knowledge grants so many bonuses and insights. True, a DM may have the character make other knowledge checks and then grant a circumstance to whatever else is going on, but even then, such things rarely grant above a +2 and are really not so versitile that they can be used in as many situations as this knowledge (Monster X) has the potential to be used. I have to think a little bit more about this before I offer any better commentary about it. But, bottom line, if I were a player, as it is currently written I would probably take it.. but as a DM, I really can see this being overly abused.

Knowledge: Close Combat
This seems overly complicated. Plus, you're allowing it to affect most any fighter feat. However, fighter feats are not all limited to "Close Combat" as the knowledge's title implies. Again, let me look at this some more. But, bottom line, as a player, I don't think I would take it because of the complicated factor plus I would rather spend the skill points on ride since the benefits gained here could be handled otherways or otherwise negligabe. I like the other poster's suggestion though, this may be better as a feat chain - things a person can or can not do. After all, that is what you are saying X skill ranks allow the ability for this or the other. You aren't providing any examples of what DC there would be to know how to do A, B, or C.

Knowledge: Art of War
I have many of the same comments for this as I had for the previous one (Close Combat). Primarily though, you are giving several "At X ranks, can do A, B, and C." but very few applications can be thought of where you have an actual DC to beat. That being the case, this may be better reworked as a Feat chain. Besides, for fighters (as this appears to have been primarily written for) there are so few skill points as it is, but introducing this, you are basically telling them that they have to have at least 5 ranks before they can do some of the "neat" stuff.
But that aside (regardless of Feat chain or skill) I think I am missing part of the point.. perhaps it is because i haven't slept though. :-)

Knowledge: Siege Weapons
Wouldn't this really already be covered by the Exotic Weapon feat (or whatever it is) that lets you use a siege weapon ?
True, I can see the applications of how that feat and this knowledge could work in concert with one another, but over all, I am still not sure ...

Craft: Trap making
Simple - not overly complicated. I presume the +2 bonus to wilderness lore is regardless of skill ranks? If so, I would re-write it as such:
A successful check (DC 10, modified by limit or abundance of resources (at the DM's discretion)), add a +2 synergy bonus to Wildernes lore for food/fur trapping. Additionally, if you have 5 or more ranks in this skill, you gain a +2 synergy bonus to search and disable device checks when either of those checks is used in relation to traps.

Profession: Locksmith
Seems fine. At first glance, it may seem that this is just a +2 synergy bonus if you 5 skill ranks (the same that can be obtained by having nothing more than a Skill FOcus feat). But, at the same time, this is a Profession skill and the Profession skill does have certain other inherent qualities (per PHB) so, this really does seem fine to me. As a player, I'd take it for the character (especially if my PC was a locksmith :) )and as a DM this really does not have much room for abuse.


So, over all, I like some of the concepts. But in their application, you seem to be hitting on more of "a person can or can not do this by having a certain number of ranks" -- however, that mechanic is more towards the Feat ability than skills.
Please keep in mind, these are just my opinions.
 

(OT) :-)

Not intending to change the topic, I just had to say this ..

whenever I post, I always see where the posters to the thread are from (if listed underneath their screen name) ...

Just noticed the previous poster and I are probably no more than a few miles apart :-P Just had to share the coincidence (across the internet, expanding across the globe, I post just after someone down the street :-) )

Anyway, we now return you to our regularly scheduled thread posts.. sorry for my ramble. ...
 

Knowledge Monsters:
I wouldn't separate this category so much in the first place - and would think of it as something like having read the classification of animals - by Aristotle... but for a fantasy setting. I don't like the higher applications of this skill however.

Close Combat and Art of war -
better represented as a feat chain of some kind.

Siege Weapons -
The use of siege weapons is not exactly covered well - especially when related to how well they are "aimed" by the character in question. I would consider this "skill" as being much like BAB's when firing a siege weapon - and you could work it accordingly.

remember - range increment penalties can add up, and if the target moves, this may be a critical skill.
In a naval type setting - where firing ballistae at the enemy vessels passing by is a matter of routine, I could see a character taking ranks in the skill.

Trap Making:
thought this already existed as a craft skill

Profession - Locksmith.
Yep - perfectly balanced as is.

When it comes to profession and knowledge skills, I think that the DM should be somewhat liberal with allowing them to grant +2 synergy bonuses.

The idea of "profession - sailor" granting a +2 to the use rope skill at 5 ranks just makes sense to me.
 

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