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Please step away from the 4th edition "effect everything" abilities.
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5918400" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>My issue with this sort of play is that either it's broken - "I drop the roof on the dragon again, wahoo, sucks to be it" - or it becomes a mechanically fairly routine element of action resolution - as per p 42 of the 4e DMG.</p><p></p><p>In the latter case, it can perhaps sometimes be creative, and I've got nothing against the players engaging the fiction, but everyone can do that. The rogue has no special monopoly on it. For example, a fighter can climb up onto higher ground to get the benefit of elevation to attack and defence. And still bring his/her "to hit" and damage bonuses to bear.</p><p></p><p>And frankly, a magic-user using a Grease spell to knock a golem prone isn't very creative at all. No more than using Charm Person to take control of an attacking lizard man. I have seen creative use of grease, but it wasn't by a spellcaster. It was a fighter in my 4e game. The PCs found some old jars of wrestling oil in a ruined gymnasium, and the fighter thought "what the heck, it might come in useful" and stuffed one into his backpack. A few days later he was fighting some golems and decided to throw the oil onto the floor, thereby increasing the effect of his forced movement by one square, thereby triggering his "knock prone if slide it more than X squares" ability.</p><p></p><p>I think that <em>is </em>creative play, because it involves the player actually engaging with the fiction now to set up a possible, but currently unknown, payoff later. A similar situation was the sorcerer who snaffled some copper wire (in H2 Thunderspire Labyrinth, I think) and is now trying to work out how to use it to enhance his Sparkform attack.</p><p></p><p>But again, these aren't things on which the rogue has a monopoly. And I much prefer it when this sort of creative, fiction-engaging play has a mechanical framework of action resolution to hook into, rather than requiring ad hoc adjudications (how much damage does a collapsing cieling do in AD&D?).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5918400, member: 42582"] My issue with this sort of play is that either it's broken - "I drop the roof on the dragon again, wahoo, sucks to be it" - or it becomes a mechanically fairly routine element of action resolution - as per p 42 of the 4e DMG. In the latter case, it can perhaps sometimes be creative, and I've got nothing against the players engaging the fiction, but everyone can do that. The rogue has no special monopoly on it. For example, a fighter can climb up onto higher ground to get the benefit of elevation to attack and defence. And still bring his/her "to hit" and damage bonuses to bear. And frankly, a magic-user using a Grease spell to knock a golem prone isn't very creative at all. No more than using Charm Person to take control of an attacking lizard man. I have seen creative use of grease, but it wasn't by a spellcaster. It was a fighter in my 4e game. The PCs found some old jars of wrestling oil in a ruined gymnasium, and the fighter thought "what the heck, it might come in useful" and stuffed one into his backpack. A few days later he was fighting some golems and decided to throw the oil onto the floor, thereby increasing the effect of his forced movement by one square, thereby triggering his "knock prone if slide it more than X squares" ability. I think that [I]is [/I]creative play, because it involves the player actually engaging with the fiction now to set up a possible, but currently unknown, payoff later. A similar situation was the sorcerer who snaffled some copper wire (in H2 Thunderspire Labyrinth, I think) and is now trying to work out how to use it to enhance his Sparkform attack. But again, these aren't things on which the rogue has a monopoly. And I much prefer it when this sort of creative, fiction-engaging play has a mechanical framework of action resolution to hook into, rather than requiring ad hoc adjudications (how much damage does a collapsing cieling do in AD&D?). [/QUOTE]
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Please step away from the 4th edition "effect everything" abilities.
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