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Please step away from the 4th edition "effect everything" abilities.
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<blockquote data-quote="fenriswolf456" data-source="post: 5918959" data-attributes="member: 6687664"><p>So the PCs should never be countered ever? I can agree that it shouldn't be a constant thing, but for the odd encounter, I have no qualms of somebody being less effective than usual. That adds to the challenge of the encounter. Say with that 3E rogue, the party now can't rely on being able to just burn down the golem fast with lots of damage. Now they might have to think of ways to help mitigate the damage the fighter takes, since they're going to have to take more hits before the golem is defeated. So the group may use abilities that apply status effects rather than straight out damage.</p><p> </p><p>Yes, it does feel blah when characters are hampered. But it shouldn't be the case that a character is fully effective in every single thing they do in their adventuring careers. I play a cold-based Swordmage, and it did suck when we played an entire adventure against the Frost King with numerous opponents resistant to cold. It goes with the territory of specializing, there will be times when that specialty is going to be negated. Likewise, a 3E rogue specializes in hitting vital organs and such. I'm not saying 3E did a good job in implementing cases where that specialty couldn't work (blanket immunities based on creature type is lazy design, such things should always be done on a creature by creature basis), but I can agree with the sentiment that sometimes an ability just doesn't work for the situation.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>They can. The rogue can still attack and do damage. It's just their usual tricks of twisting the knife or cutting arteries doesn't seem to work on a creature immune to such things.</p><p> </p><p>If you're meaning that PCs should always be able to do their full damage all the time to kill things, that's not going to promote creative play. That's an issue my group (and I'm sure lots of others) has found with 4E. The best condition you can put on a creature is the Dead condition, so the focus is usually on doing as much damage as you can every turn. If a rogue's backstab works all the time, why would they try to be creative and do anything else?</p><p> </p><p>I'd rather an encounter where the trick is to push the iron golem back into the forge from whence it was created, than to just keep hacking away at it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="fenriswolf456, post: 5918959, member: 6687664"] So the PCs should never be countered ever? I can agree that it shouldn't be a constant thing, but for the odd encounter, I have no qualms of somebody being less effective than usual. That adds to the challenge of the encounter. Say with that 3E rogue, the party now can't rely on being able to just burn down the golem fast with lots of damage. Now they might have to think of ways to help mitigate the damage the fighter takes, since they're going to have to take more hits before the golem is defeated. So the group may use abilities that apply status effects rather than straight out damage. Yes, it does feel blah when characters are hampered. But it shouldn't be the case that a character is fully effective in every single thing they do in their adventuring careers. I play a cold-based Swordmage, and it did suck when we played an entire adventure against the Frost King with numerous opponents resistant to cold. It goes with the territory of specializing, there will be times when that specialty is going to be negated. Likewise, a 3E rogue specializes in hitting vital organs and such. I'm not saying 3E did a good job in implementing cases where that specialty couldn't work (blanket immunities based on creature type is lazy design, such things should always be done on a creature by creature basis), but I can agree with the sentiment that sometimes an ability just doesn't work for the situation. They can. The rogue can still attack and do damage. It's just their usual tricks of twisting the knife or cutting arteries doesn't seem to work on a creature immune to such things. If you're meaning that PCs should always be able to do their full damage all the time to kill things, that's not going to promote creative play. That's an issue my group (and I'm sure lots of others) has found with 4E. The best condition you can put on a creature is the Dead condition, so the focus is usually on doing as much damage as you can every turn. If a rogue's backstab works all the time, why would they try to be creative and do anything else? I'd rather an encounter where the trick is to push the iron golem back into the forge from whence it was created, than to just keep hacking away at it. [/QUOTE]
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Please step away from the 4th edition "effect everything" abilities.
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