Please stop paying full price for rulebooks.

Let's say it costs $9 to make, stock, sell, and ship a book.

Let's say the retail shop sells it for $15.

Let's say the online shop sells it for $8.

The public stops buying from the retail shop and buys it from the online shop.

The retail shop goes out of business because noone buys from them.

The online shop goes out of business because they lose a dollar on every sale.
 

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Ulrick said:

I just wonder how many people who'd like to get into the hobby but who couldn't afford to because books are too expensive. I think we've all encountered potential players who've said, "It's seems cool but the books are just too expensive."

I've had players who refused to buy a Player's Handbook--they were "poor college students" or high school students which was understandable.

If the price barrier of entry was lowered, I wonder how many players that would generate? And thus, renewing the hobby with new players, rather than having it die a horrible death like so many "chicken littles" presume would happen when prices of books lower to a reasonable level.

1) A very large chunk of the time, people that say "it's just too expensive" are really saying "I'm not really that interested". There are very, very, very few adults who can't afford $30 dollars for a book, or even $90 dollars for the core rules combo - rather, they choose not to, because their level of interest is not high enough to overcome the expenditure of money.

Now, does this mean that if the books were, say $20, that more people would jump into the hobby? (Putting aside the fact that the core books were $20, for quite a long time.)

Doubtful. Sure, there might be a slight increase, but the reality of the situation is that the number of people who balk at a $30 "buy in" fee for a hobby but would "buy in" at $20 is negligible. The increase would simply not be enough to make up for the loss in revenue.

2) "The poor college student" argument doesn't wash. There are very few actual "poor college students" - sure, some of them work like dogs to put themselves through college and have (sometimes literally) no disposable income, but the vast majority are those who either choose not to have jobs, or choose to spend their money on things like beer, pizza, clothes or road trips.

3) Ultimately, it boils down to this: people find ways to pay for the hobbies/things they like. The same people who don't play rpgs because "it's too expensive" have no problem plunking down $50 for the new Mortal Kombat game, or $20 bucks on a DVD, or $4 for a pack of Yu Gi Oh cards, or $40 bucks for alcohol at the bar, or hell, $500 dollars to outfit themselves with some golf clubs and lessons.


RPG companies WANT to reach a wide audience, but they also want to get solid return against their investment, which is why they run the numbers when they're determining price. It's not simply a case of folks twirling their mustaches and raises prices willy-nilly, it's all about balancing interest against expected return.

Each transaction is like a battle. On one side is the customer, who wants to pay as little as possible for the product - his weapon is choice, and his treasure is cash. On the other is the publisher, who wants to maximize profit on the book - his weapon is price, and his treasure is product. Thing is though, the battle is stacked against the publisher from the beginning, because he needs the customer's cash MUCH more than the customer needs his product (which is true in any hobby industry).

So, it's the publisher's job to determine at what point maximum profit and customer interest intersect, and price accordingly. That's the sweet spot. It's a delicate science - set the price too high, and customer's don't give up their treasure, set it too low and not enough customer treasure comes in to justify the effort.
Here, consider this:

SWEET SPOT SCIENCE (the incredibly simplified version)

I make a 1000 copies of my RPG. Let's say I'm getting %100 profit off this book, so each time I sell, I make whatever I sold it for. So, I make my book...

A) and sell it for $40. 40. Let's say I sell 500 copies. That's $20,000.

B) and sell it for $30. Say I sell 750 copies, because more people are willing to buy at that lower price. That's 30,000 dollars.

C) and sell it for $20. Say I sell all 1000 copies, because people are willing to buy at that price. That's $20,000.


In this case, the sweet spot is option B. I don't sell as many copies as option C, but I make lot's more money. Conversely, I make less per transaction than with option A, but my total profit is still higher. Maximizing profit is good business.

IMO, it's good business that's gonna make the industry slowly and steadily stronger.

Patrick Y.
 


I feel the need to step in here, if only to clarify my own points in the matter.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have no objection to people like Mark getting their books through Amazon or other discount providers. My argument was not that nobody should ever pay less than full price.

My point was simply that:

A) If everyone pays less than full price, the industry will die. (Not might. Will.)

B) If you don't want to pay full price because you can't afford to (or even don't want to), hey, great. But don't claim you're doing it because current prices are somehow jacked up or otherwise unfairly raised. RPG books, for the most part, cost what they need to cost, or even less.

In other words, I wasn't objecting to anything Mark is doing. I was objecting to the "call" for everyone to do so, when the reasons behind that call were blatantly misinformed.
 

Mark Chance said:
Answer these: How much money do I make a month after taxes? How much of that money is dedicated to paying bills, mortgage, insurance, for food, for my children's schooling, et cetera? Of the difference between the two totals, how much gets spent on family activities such as movies or outings to Lake Conroe? Once this total has been accounted for, how much do I have left each month to spend for purely selfish reasons? Now, subtract the amount I spend on comic books each month, and tell me how much money I can put aside for gaming books each month? Quickly now, since you're the expert on my precise financial situation.

An entire line of argument that is irrelevant.

Instead of buying a game book once a month, but one once every two months. You spend the same amount, and your finances are the same.

Buy gaming books half as often as you do now, and you will have plenty of money to do so.
 

herald said:
Capitalism is not defined as "Survival of the fittist." Capitalism is predicated on the idea of a fair market economy. If someone manipulates the economy, it's not a level playing field.

cap·i·tal·ism
n.
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a _free_ market. [Emphasis added]

---------

herald said:
Quoted like someone who doesn't understand capatalism. There are plenty of cases where the government have stepped where businesses undercut smaller venders to corner the market.

Please name One?

If you are talking about United States monopoly and anti-trust rules then the issue is not undercutting competition within your industry but using the force of one industry to imbalance another.

---------

So, really, Nileriver.com, bye.com, or Barn&Mercantile.com could sell all the cheap books they want; that is their industry. That is what they are in business to do and gollygoodgumdrops for them. If the sale of all those cheap books puts FLGSs out of business, then that is an affect of capitalism and one that you need to accept or at least contemplate when you buy cheap books.

If Nileriver.com, bye.com, or Barn&Mercantile.com force us to buy all the dice, minis, tables, chips, soda, pizza, and pencils to go with said RPG books and to go to Nileriver.com/findRPGplayers to meet other gamers; then we have some problems.

Let’s face it; some people pay more for good service or support although you could get the same item somewhere else. Think of your favorite restaurant, and your not so favorite. What makes the difference?
 

herald said:

Now, are you telling all of us here that you can't hold on to your money until have enought to buy a game book? If so, that's not the industries fault, that's yours.

When did I say I can't hold on to my money? When did I ever blame my financial situation on the industry?

I'm not the one accusing anyone of being dishonest, suggesting any pull his or her head of his or her ass, or claiming to have special knowledge of other people's financial situation.

Given all of that, who exactly needs to get over himself?
 

Ulrick said:
I just wonder how many people who'd like to get into the hobby but who couldn't afford to because books are too expensive. I think we've all encountered potential players who've said, "It's seems cool but the books are just too expensive."

Of course, how many people would be dissuaded from entering the hobby if the only way to get in was to order on-line? People like to look at products, and see them before they buy them. Most of the people who are gamers now are not on-line, and wouldn't know how to order books from an online service if you offered them money to do it. What makes you think that a casual gamer will go out of his way to purchase stuff sight unseen online?
 


Storm Raven said:
Buy gaming books half as often as you do now, and you will have plenty of money to do so.

Did "herald" share my financial information with you? You know for a fact that I purchase X number of books every X number of days for X number of dollars?

Or is it just that my spending habits, which are entirely my prerogative, don't meet your enlightened criteria for acceptability, and therefore you are somehow empowered to correct my perceived errors?

And "herald" says I need to get over myself? :rolleyes:
 
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