Plot Killer: Divination

[Renfield]

Alas I DM for a group not blessed with ignorant fools who believe divination to be weak and useless... Which means they'll put divination to work as best they can. While this isn't a current and pressing issue it is one that I have had to be careful of in the past. Any advice on how Divination can be turned around into my favor as opposed to ruining a plot by revealing secrets and the like qould be very helpful. Also any advice and examples of how I can work with divination instead of using some lame excuse like "it's magically protected." Would be useful as well... not only to me but I'm sure there are countless DM's out there that would like such information. Especially for higher level games.

 

[Nifft]

Answer: don't forbid Divination, require it. Throw plots at them that have no clues. Make them use Divinations to get the clues in the first place, or to narrow down a huge field of candidates when they're finally able to ask the right questions.

For Scrying, don't be afraid to make most rich, civilized places proof against it. They're not the first spellcasters to think of peeking in at the Princess's dressing room... security in private (for the rich) is very reasonable. Public areas are a whole other ball of wax.

Disguises, magical and non-magical, become de rigeur for anyone worried about spying eyes and scry sensors. A Hat of Disguise is cheap, and a Disguise Kit is cheaper. Perhaps in some places, everyone wears a hood, or a mask, or a veil in public.

-- N

 

[Renfield]

True, but I don't like to require too much of my players, though requiring the occasional divination spell is nice once in awhile and can lead groups who don't have immediate access to one on a merry little chase to find a wizard or sorcerer willing to catch one. Still... I'm looking into how to deal with scrying when information you just don't want them to have is involved. As well as any other situation where scrying might pose as a nuance that can be turned around into the DM's favor.

 

[DMScott]

I'm assuming you mean divination spells in general, rather than just the Divination spell, which is sufficiently vague and limited so as not to be a big problem. One suggestion for Scry and equivalents: if you haven't already, switch to the 3.5 system of having the spells allow Will saves rather than requiring scry skill checks. This makes scrying dependent more on the target than the caster, and it'll fail more often.

Another good solution: throw a divination-heavy bad guy at your players, and see what they do to counter. Observing your players' level of paranoia and the sort of countermeasures they take should give you an idea as to what's appropriate for your NPCs. Sometimes the best way to brainstorm a solution is to make your players do it - ancient lazy DM's trick .

You might find the "magical protections" excuse lame, but in fact if the protections are available and useful they'll become common. "Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum" items (or permanent areas) should be reasonably common among higher level types. At lower levels there are non-magical solutions, like having doubles to confuse divinations, ensuring that information is distributed only a need-to-know basis, coming up with plans that threaten several different targets so the players have a dilemma as to which part to counter, etc.

 

[Renfield]

Hmmm, sounds good... and I like that using PC paranoia... though with my luck the one player who reads these boards... and the most clever of the bunch... will likely read this and be ready. Either way a useful tactic nonetheless. I'll have to study up on divination spells a little more and see if knowing the spells inside and out can help me. It's helped me with a few spells. Once upon a time I was an idiot and allowed a player to throw seeds and let that be the source of the entangle spell before finally reading up on it and realizing he was throwing me through a loop and playing off of my lack of knowledge. Oi that was annoying. I caught him at another thing but I forget what. Either way I like the whole body double thing and hats of disguise as well... granted I didn't know such methods could foil scrying and divination spells if you're focusing on a specific individual...

 

[DMScott]

Hmmm, sounds good... and I like that using PC paranoia... though with my luck the one player who reads these boards... and the most clever of the bunch... will likely read this and be ready.

That's all right. The idea isn't so much to catch the players off guard as to see what they consider reasonable when an enemy is scrying them, sending Prying Eyes to see what they're doing, using Commune/Legend Lore/etc. to find out any weaknesses they might have, etc. If they respond by buffing up with anti-divination spells and taking other precautions, then they won't be too upset when your villains do the same thing.

 

[Renfield]

Very good point... I'll be sure to remember that. How about advice on specific divination tactics for myself and any other interested fellow DM's to know? Tactics for Villains or perhaps NPC's that do not trust PC's too much (which will be quite common given the fact that my next campaign is apparently to be an evil one.) Anything anyone can give to help would be great.

 

[Someone]

Also, if you use 3.5 notice that scrying sensors are blocked by a thin sheet of lead. I can´t think of a reason of why anyone would not use it in the most important rooms of his house: non magical, cheap scrying block.

 

[Renfield]

Hmm... I think I'll remember that. Might incorporate that might not, my group has a few issues with how 3.5 pussified a lot of things, regardless it's an idea for me to look into.

 

[GrayIguana]

I had a group that had many divination powers and I thought it worked out rather well. Just because the group can divine something doesn't mean it will be easy for the group to overcome the obstacle.

Here were the things I used against the group.

Only give the details they specifically ask for.

Give additionall details that help drive your plot. I thought it was a great way to give hints to an enemy's villany, and build up how evil the opponent was.

Use a lot of minions. When the group tries to divine who the murderer was. It was a minion. Perhaps a minion of a minion. It will take more digging to find the real power behind the plot.

Only protect the key plot NPCs from divination. You have to let the PCs feel that divination is a useful tool or the ability becomes viewed as lame, and becomes unused. (There were a few times I wished they would divine something to move the action along.)

Just some thoughts. I hope they help.