plotting the growth of settlements for PC rulers

[vagabundo]

Mix in some skill challenges with the battle system and you've got something very epic - or paragon - going on there. And I'm pretty sure you could drag the heroes out of their castles for a good crawl once in a while.

I wonder how P1 would play out if the PCs had a stronghold threatened by the Trolls. Hmmm...

Food for thought. These kinds of systems should be updated and included in a 4e book - Unearthed Arcana Dammit!!

 

[rustypaladin]

It sounds to me like the best thing for you to do is just go with what seems fair and logical.

Like start with a percentile roll to see if population grows or shrinks. Allow the player to earn modifiers to this roll based on efforts they put into it. Such as active recruitment drives, cash/land/housing incentives, etc...

I would still not allow them to increase the population more than 200% in a given year (meaning no more than double it). Also, the previous posters are correct, investing money into such lands is a very wise thing to do, because with time and mother nature being on your side, PC land owners can make a lot of gold, even with 40% of it being paid to their lord as taxes.

The cool thing is, powerful PC's can negotiate as a reward from their lord "X" number of years being at a lower tax rate, even zero if the service is worth it to the given lord.

I wouldn't roll for such things. I usually "know" enough about the lord, their issues, their costs, etc... to know whether or not I would offer the PC's such a reward if I actually were the lord. Then I enter into real life like negotiations with the PC's based upon these things I "know" about the lord in question. No rolling, just me and the players making decisions based on what we know about the characters involved.

When the occasional thing comes up that we do not know enough about, I revert to a percentile roll, and giving a 50/50 chance is usually good enough, but again, I follow my instincts about such things, and modify the result needed up and down as I think fits best.

As an example, the "Magical Medievel Society: Western Europe", by Expeditious Retreat Press, recommended by a poster up above, does everything based upon the D&D assumptions of value. So, as a result, one of my players has a PC who has 100 square miles of very profitable land for his Barony. By the same token, based on the wealth of his lands, I have a much better sense of how disgustingly rich the other Barons, Counts, Dukes, common land owners, and the Empress are as well.

So now the whole economy makes much better sense to me since I understand the basic scale of it so much better.

If you ever decide to get into more economic details, let me know, because there are several other good PDF's and such out there.


Also take a look at the following:

Medieval Demographics Made Easy


Medieval Kingdom Generator

http://citygen.crystalballsoft.com/

and


Medieval Sourcebook: Medieval Price List

These can all help you figure things out and be more comfortable with your decision making.

Fantastic links! Thank you very much for the info. More than I need but some great info there. Thanks again. rustypaladin

 

[Cyronax]

Inspired by Greywulf's post linked above, here's my own effort at a BFR calculation system for the BECMI War Machine Rules for 4e. I think the Quick system is probably more appropriate for most 4e campaigns, the Extended system is for those who like more number-crunching.


With PC Leader:
2. Set BFR at 1 below minimum for that TC
3. Add Leader modifier:

Leadership
Leader’s level + Leader's Class Modifier:

Class Modifier - based on attitude of troops commanded:
+10 Very Favoured - Warlord
+5 Favoured - Fighter, Paladin, Barbarian
+0 Neutral - Cleric, Bard, Ranger, Warden, other Leader or Defender
-5 Disfavoured - Rogue, Wizard, Druid, Shaman, Invoker, Assassin, Avenger, other Controller or Striker

The class modifier assumes a typical campaign setting where the troops trust martial prowess more than the arcane arts, feel distant from divine power, and distrust Rogues. It may be adjusted according to the culture of the setting, eg in a Magocracy Wizards may have +5 to Leadership, in a Theocracy Clerics may have +5. If a Thieves' Guild fielded an army then Rogues might have +5.

Class modifiers get a little dodgy as a standardized rule, IMO. One alternative might be giving bonuses for being trained in skills like history or diplomacy?

You could also have a PC attempt to improve his leadership score by making a mini-skill challenge. Possibly 4 successes vs. 3 failures -- primary skills history, diplomacy, streetwise, and possibly intimidate and bluff?

I like your quick system though. This might be worth a thread of its own -- converting Rules Cyclopedia to 4e?

C.I.D.

 

[S'mon]

Class modifiers get a little dodgy as a standardized rule, IMO. One alternative might be giving bonuses for being trained in skills like history or diplomacy?

Well, for flavour reasons I want Fighters to be viable commanders, and Rogues to be disfavoured as commanders, except for specialised 'scout' units and such.

 

[Cyronax]

Well, for flavour reasons I want Fighters to be viable commanders, and Rogues to be disfavoured as commanders, except for specialised 'scout' units and such.

That's cool. I personally would give classes a way of overcoming their preconceived leadership handicaps then. I can think of many scenarios where a non-traditional commander would excel more than say a warlord.

What do you think about siege equipment in 4e? I have considered drafting up a set of rules similar to the the vehicle/pilot rules from the Adventurer's Vault involving siege weapons.

I think it'd involve a commander using all but his minor action to direct a bunch of minions to aim or handle the siege weapon. And then of course you need to draft rules for various wall strength, etc.

C.I.D.

 

[S'mon]

What do you think about siege equipment in 4e? I have considered drafting up a set of rules similar to the the vehicle/pilot rules from the Adventurer's Vault involving siege weapons.

I think it'd involve a commander using all but his minor action to direct a bunch of minions to aim or handle the siege weapon. And then of course you need to draft rules for various wall strength, etc.

C.I.D.

There's some War Machine rules for sieges in the Masters set and Rules Cyclopedia that should work well for large scale sieges. Since historical sieges normally took weeks at least, I think they're normally better abstracted - IRL castle walls don't fall down from a few strikes, "Medieval Total War" style. Of course you can certainly do a great 4e encounter "Assault the Walls" or "Take out that Siege Engine" in which siege engines appear as an element of the encounter.