D&D 4E Point buy, 4e & you.

[AFGNCAAP]

Well, if stat mods for 4e may be base stat mod + 1/2 character level (rounded down), then I can easily see why higher stats would be more expensive.

And, if 4e takes a lead from SWSE & allows two stats to get a +1 every X levels or so (seems the scale varies per tier, though), then it'd be easier to get a stat up to 18 or higher (and this, it'd be easier to get an 18 stat very, very high). Another good reason why an 18 should be more expensive.

And, in general, I prefer point-buy now, because it allows players to make a character concept they can work with & enjoy, instead of being trapped with a poor set of rolled stats (which has happened a lot over the years).

And, I used to play with a player who cheated constantly. On stat rolls, mundane Listen checks (even for mundane stuff), anything. And, combined with arguing over the rules when something didn't work out his way (through luck of the rolls or sound tactics on the DM's or another player's part), that really got me tired of him, & his style of play.

And, as it is, it's a fairness issue for me—I really prefer all of the players to start off with the same opportunities/chances for their characters. It allows me to easily say "Use this method to generate stats, & you can make up the PC ahead of time." And, it's also a legit/easy-to-determine way to see if someone's cheated.

 

[KevinF]

Point buys are great for evening out the relative power of each character, but I still prefer rolling for them. There is a certain "excitement" and attachment you feel toward a character that you rolled up, that is different from one you buy.

 

[Mercule]

I prefer point buy because it gives me more control over my character creation. That, and it's more balanced betwixt players.

I agree with Engilbrand. Roll one set of stats, used by the whole group, or use point buy. I don't want there to be a differential between the starting potential of the characters based on luck.

I kinda like this, though. Even better would be to roll 21 (or some other number that works for the group) dice and allow the players to mix and match as they see fit. The potential is the same for all players, but they aren't required to be mixed up copies.

The only time I see the old-school rolling for stats to be even acceptable (i.e. I wouldn't consider it a strike against my participating in the game) is if you're doing an old-school dungeon crawl with potentially high turnover of PCs. Then you play 3d6 or 4d6, in order, and the stats and character choices resulting from them are part of the fun.

As far as scaling point costs, remember that rolling dice give a bell curve that discourages extreme stats. Even though I don't like the randomness of potentially having weenies and gods in the party, I can't say I dislike the "fair-ified" bell curve being carried forward. I also tend to believe that a +4 strength and +0 con is generally more potent than a +2 strength and a +2 con. YMMV, but that line of thinking might be a driver behind the scaling costs.

 

[Gorrstagg]

Where have you guys seen a new version of the point buy? And if so what source, has it been confirmed, and how does that confirmation compare to say the pregens. Also.. if you could post the formula that your presenting as 4E's.

 

[Mirtek]

I usually end up with character who suffer much from self-induced MAD and I don't think that will change for me in 4e.

I just prefer multiple 14s instead of just excelling in my main area. I am aware that this often makes my character the weakest char on the table, but I prefer that from a RP point of view.

My last fighter/rogue depends on Str, Dex, Con, Int and Cha.

Str because my weapon of choice is a longsword
Dex because with my mere chainshirt I need every point of AC
-> I could solve this MAD through attacking with weapon finesse, but I do not want it

Con is obvious as a front-line guy with light armor and half of my HD being d6

Int not so much because of extra skill points (I could easily live with the rogue skillpoints + human bonus without any bonus skill points) but because I just want to have a smart character

Cha because I wanted him to be the darin scoundrel who steals the lady's heart along with her wallet

That leaves Wis as my only dump stat, yet even there I took 10 because my will save is abysmal enought without the -1 penalty


I did my char with 28 points weighted point buy and now you can guess how much he sucks in combat. But I am quite happy with him.


I already see me build similar chars in 4e, especially at least 12 Int / 12 Char ony any Char I create (even with classes who gain nothing from Int/Cha and to the expense of the stats that really matter for that class)

 

[Draumr]

I’m with Mr Jack on this. We typically go with one of two methods:

1. All characters start with the following array of dice results, which can be assigned any way a player wishes, under the limitation that each score should have three dice assigned:
 6,6,6,6,6
 5,5,5,5,5
 4,4,4,4
 3,3
 2,2
Total: 81 points.

2. Roll 24d6; drop 6; assign the rest: 3 dice per ability.

Yes, I know that it is high-powered, but then we tend to go spare on the magic.

 

[Raduin711]

I like the weighted point buy system. I think the reason they use it should be pretty clear.

 

[SadisticFishing]

Weighted/diminishig returns systems encourage more well rounded characters, and give more "real" choices. One for one systems encourage maxing out your stats from most important downwards untill you run out of points.

Also, what Xorn said.

Exactly.

 

[Kaffis]

But the exact same thing happens with flat or weighted.

The only difference I see is that you get punished for wanting to excel in one particular area. Weighting encourages, ironically, flatter stat choices. This isn't necessarily a good thing.

I'm still not seeing any real mechanical reason to simply give point for point costs. 22 point-buy is then the effective equivalent of 28 point-buy, but much simpler to calculate.

But by encouraging flatter stat choices overall, the people who decide the 18 is worth the investment are more infrequent, and thus they are actually "excelling" rather than just "oh, what did you decide to put your 18 in?"

 

[Pbartender]

I'm a big fan of point buy however one thing I've never quite understood is why there is a weighting for points above 14.

As far as 3E was concerned... A two part answer:

1. There is weighting for high scores in the point buy system, because to a some small degree it helps emulate the bell curve of scores generated by rolling dice for ability scores. With 4d6 drop the lowest, for example, the average ability score is roughly 12 or 13, with majority of the ability scores falling in the 10-15 range. Anything outside that is pretty rare. The point buy weighting, especially when using only 28-30 points, roughly reinforces that spread.

2. there is weighting for points above 14, because that's how the simple formula works... In 3E, "To increase any ability score by one, you must spend a number of points equal to that ability's current bonus, but spending a minimum of one point." 15 is the first weighted score, because 14 is the first score that has a bonus of more than +1:

8 - 0 points
9 - 1 point (+1)
10 - 2 points (+1)
11 - 3 points (+1)
12 - 4 points (+1)
13 - 5 points (+1)
14 - 6 points (+1)
15 - 8 points (+2)
16 - 10 points (+2)
17 - 13 points (+3)
18 - 16 points (+3)

It not dissimilar from the formula for wighting experience points to gain a level... "To gain a level, you need an additional number of experience points equal to your current level times one thousand."

4E, apparently, is using a different formula for the weighting... I haven't figured out yet what the formula is yet, though.