Point buy and humans vs other races?
- Thread starter Plane Sailing
- Start date
Fenris
Adventurer
On a related note:
In my old 2 ed campaigns I had almost 100% demihumans, very few humans were taken. This was partly due to typically a small party size and multi-classing. Now the same group of gamers in 3 ed has made several different parties for various campaigns but every person every time took a human!
How do I encourage party diversity without breaking the system. If everyone takes a human fine, but I don't wnat them taking them just because they think the bonus feat is so wonderful. These are demi-human preferring players by history. Any suggestions, or just let the players guide the party compostion?
In my old 2 ed campaigns I had almost 100% demihumans, very few humans were taken. This was partly due to typically a small party size and multi-classing. Now the same group of gamers in 3 ed has made several different parties for various campaigns but every person every time took a human!
How do I encourage party diversity without breaking the system. If everyone takes a human fine, but I don't wnat them taking them just because they think the bonus feat is so wonderful. These are demi-human preferring players by history. Any suggestions, or just let the players guide the party compostion?
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
Fenris said:
I do not understand.
So ability whoring was OK when you were playing with broken 2e rules, but now that you are playing 3e it is not?
Relax. They will eventually take other races. Humans are a good race for flexible characters, and a few specialists. Demi-humans are better for some other specialists.
Halflings and Elves make the best Rogues. Elves make the best archers. Dwarves and Half-Orcs make the best bruisers.
If you are playing lower level characters, that extra feat looks very tasty to someone trying to complete a chain. Once you hit 9th or 12th level, squeezing in the "must have" feats for a particular concept is not so difficult.
thundershot
Adventurer
Here's how I make MY players deal with ability scores!
Get this!
I make them roll 4d6 for each attribute... and remove the lowest die roll.
Then I let them put those scores on whichever attributes they desire. After that, I allow them to add in whatever racial bonuses they get!
Chris (will always use dice...)
(note: the above text was not inflammatory, just thought it was funny how only one person even mentioned dice-rolling...)
Get this!
I make them roll 4d6 for each attribute... and remove the lowest die roll.
Then I let them put those scores on whichever attributes they desire. After that, I allow them to add in whatever racial bonuses they get!
Chris (will always use dice...)
(note: the above text was not inflammatory, just thought it was funny how only one person even mentioned dice-rolling...)
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
thundershot said:
It takes all kinds.
I heard some people still use dice to determine their "attack roll", the ignorant slobs.
Once we enjoyed the improved speed of combat with point buy attack rolls, point buy damage rolls, point buy skill checks, and point buy savings throws, we could never go back.
I hit AC 19 for 7 points of damage.
You miss.
I hit AC 19 for 7 points of damage.
You miss.
Damn! One more time!! I hit AC 19 for 7 points of damage.
You miss.
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nwn_deadman
First Post
In my opinion a point buy is results in a more fair playing field for the players then dice.
Someone could get good dice and thus have a 45 point buy equalivent and the next guy could get a 25.
No matter how much you want to role play, a 20 point difference is going to matter.
How fun is it to watch someone else get all the kills just because they got the good dice at character creation time?
Same goes for hit points...
Dice should take a back seat when character stats and hit points are concerned...
Attack, Damage and Skill Checks are less likely to screw up a character than during creation time...
Someone could get good dice and thus have a 45 point buy equalivent and the next guy could get a 25.
No matter how much you want to role play, a 20 point difference is going to matter.
How fun is it to watch someone else get all the kills just because they got the good dice at character creation time?
Same goes for hit points...
Dice should take a back seat when character stats and hit points are concerned...
Attack, Damage and Skill Checks are less likely to screw up a character than during creation time...
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
On a more serious note, I think that setting hit points is a good idea for PCs.
Everyone gets max at first level. Every level after, give 3 for the Wizard, 4 for the Rogue, 5 for the Cleric, etc. I do not think rolling for HPs actually adds to the experience for players.
NPCs, OTOH, should be rolled. Becomes just a little too easy to guess the exact HPs of your opponent sometimes if you do not.
Everyone gets max at first level. Every level after, give 3 for the Wizard, 4 for the Rogue, 5 for the Cleric, etc. I do not think rolling for HPs actually adds to the experience for players.
NPCs, OTOH, should be rolled. Becomes just a little too easy to guess the exact HPs of your opponent sometimes if you do not.
non-rolled HP
I haven't had a problem with not rolling NPC hit points. But I do sneaky things like make creatures with Con scores different than average or add a couple rogue levels. No one can tell how many HP the critter they're facing has until the fight is done, even though I don't bother to roll.
I haven't had a problem with not rolling NPC hit points. But I do sneaky things like make creatures with Con scores different than average or add a couple rogue levels. No one can tell how many HP the critter they're facing has until the fight is done, even though I don't bother to roll.
Crothian
First Post
Ridley's Cohort said:
I do the exact opposite. Players, from my experience like the thrill of rolling for HPs. It's like vegas except your playing for your characters life instead of money.
NPCs, on the other hand I ussually give about 60% of max. THe PCs neven know exactly the classes or the levels of an NPC, so having set numbers is fine.
JESawyer
First Post
I use an unweighted point-buy in my game specifically to avoid things like this. I've tried to explain it to people in the past, but they just don't see how the math works out, I guess. Sorry, but you're trying to convince me that +1 here is worth more than +1 there, and that's just not the case. It also allows most of the demi-humans to cheese out and do the old "16 in my bonus stat, 12 in my penalized stat" routine, which is the lamest lame that ever lamed. Some have argued that this waters down the overall impact of a race's bonuses and penalties. To a certain extent, this is true. However, in the weighted point buy system, it makes the impact of the bonus higher and the impact of the penalty lower. Don't even get me started on the DMG's "theory of relativity" for the different ability scores.
