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<blockquote data-quote="Coroc" data-source="post: 7909613" data-attributes="member: 6895991">The Sorcerer only really starts to shine at level 5+; until then, it is little more than a sub-par WizardAs long as said wizard gets into some melee, then the odds are a bit more in favor of a draconic sorcerer.The Sorcerer is cruelly denied some of the Wizard's best spells, such as Find Familiar, Flaming Sphere, and Wall of ForceThe sorcerer is mercifully denied the &quot;smack Tweety when Brugo the Ogre claps his hands&quot; standard procedure of mine for nosy familars of fearful wizards sent to unknown dungeon corners <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :P"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />Flaming sphere ? To slow for a sorcerer.Wall of force? You do not need a wall between you and the scorched pile of your enemies which you just burned to a crisp. Fireball upcast to spellevel 5 makes better use of your spellslots.The Sorcerer PHB subclasses are uninspiring (Draconic) or downright broken (Wild Magic)Hm. draconic is a power build. Wild magic is a fun build. Yea, maybe, although I think wild mage is a better subclass for sorcerer than like in 2e for wizards, so I think 5e did its job there.On the builds, yes it is not the easiest class to build I agree with you on that one.For me the sorcerer or warlock or bard not so much the paladin are those number 5 party members when all other roles are taken. The sorcerer can work as a party wizard but not so good like pally can work as party tank and party healer.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Coroc, post: 7909613, member: 6895991"] [I]The Sorcerer only really starts to shine at level 5+; until then, it is little more than a sub-par Wizard[/I] As long as said wizard gets into some melee, then the odds are a bit more in favor of a draconic sorcerer. [I]The Sorcerer is cruelly denied some of the Wizard's best spells, such as Find Familiar, Flaming Sphere, and Wall of Force[/I] The sorcerer is mercifully denied the "smack Tweety when Brugo the Ogre claps his hands" standard procedure of mine for nosy familars of fearful wizards sent to unknown dungeon corners :P Flaming sphere ? To slow for a sorcerer. Wall of force? You do not need a wall between you and the scorched pile of your enemies which you just burned to a crisp. Fireball upcast to spellevel 5 makes better use of your spellslots. [I]The Sorcerer PHB subclasses are uninspiring (Draconic) or downright broken (Wild Magic)[/I] Hm. draconic is a power build. Wild magic is a fun build. Yea, maybe, although I think wild mage is a better subclass for sorcerer than like in 2e for wizards, so I think 5e did its job there. On the builds, yes it is not the easiest class to build I agree with you on that one. For me the sorcerer or warlock or bard not so much the paladin are those number 5 party members when all other roles are taken. The sorcerer can work as a party wizard but not so good like pally can work as party tank and party healer. [/QUOTE]

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