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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7912280" data-attributes="member: 6795602">You really don't need to look round by round - at least not past the early levels.  As level goes up, hp gets higher and damage per turn scales more and more by number of attacks as opposed to damage per attack.  These factors actually mean that effective hp makes a statistically accurate comparison tool.Also, the highest damage attacks you are typically going to take are from saving throw abilities - the very kind of damage sources the barbarian is much better defending against than the fighter.  No flaw.  I don't have to ever use reckless attack - which means nothing is actually wrong with the comparison.  However, having an ability to toggle between high defense and high offense mode is especially important for party play.  If enemies ignore me because my defense is much higher than my allies then such toggles abilities can incentivize enemies to start attacking me instead of my allies.  The fact that a typical fighter doesn't have such a toggle ability is the bigger issue.You do realize I did that to benefit the fighter.  2nd wind is a short rest ability.  If we are just looking at a single encounter then a fighter only gets 1 use.  In that case your fighter at level 5 has 170 effective hp.  The barbarian still has the previous computed value of 220 hp. I get barbarian at 11.6 rounds and fighter at 9.1 rounds.  I'm really starting to question your math.Amazing.  The fighter will only have a 50% chance to kill a bandit in 1 attack (He's using a longsword and a shield with the duelist fighting style).  The barbarian will have a greatsword (remember no shield).  The barbarian will have a 72.2% chance of killing a bandit in 1 attack.But more importantly, why are we even comparing offense of 1 PC vs X NPCs?  If we want to go down that path we have to look at Y PCs vs X NPCs which makes slight differences in the fighter and barbarians individual damages basically negligible.But most importantly, this debate started out around who was more defensive.  The offensive elements don't matter at all for this discussion.  So bringing them in is just an attempt to muddy the waters.  I've made no statement about a character with more offense being able to live through more in a 1 PC vs X NPC scenario.  So why is this even getting brought up?I mean if you are considering anything above +3 to be abnormally high then maybe....1.  You made no effort to compare the bear totem because you didn't include any elemental damages.  Unless your conceding that the bear totem is better against anything that isn't using attack based damage?2.  Right, I'm very impressed with the battlemaster due to parry.  That can knock down a lot of daily damage.  In a single fight it's enough to put the fighter back on par with the barbarian.  Unless you are facing non-attack damage.3.  EK is solid at defense with shield spell and absorb elements.  Depends a little on how lenient the DM is with spellcasting and having both hands full.  There's the warcaster feat to offset those concerns I suppose but that's a pretty big buy in.  Still solid, and gets much better once you get the extra spell slots for having level 3 spells.</blockquote>

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