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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Drowbane" data-source="post: 5934834" data-attributes="member: 23396">If the Fighter is still standing after 10 rounds the thing deserves to kill him with auto damade for standing up to it so long.Does this still sound palatable reversed? If its good for the Goose...Actually, Fi vs Wiz in AD&D (really any edition) was 100% "who wins initiative". Wizards could stay invis all day as long as they didn't attack anything, so if the Wiz is hunting the fighter the fighter best roll good on saves. I will have to consult my 2ePHB, but I am pretty sure that Wizards had awesome saves vs Spells and Fighters were good against most other things. Maybe I have it backwards, been awhile. This whole "3e Fighters SUCKS" thing is something I really only see on the internet, and seemed to have started around 2007. In my current 3.5 game we have... (2) Dwarf Clerics, (2) 1/2 Orc Fighters, (1) Dwarf Rogue, (1) Aasimar Sorc.Fighter 20 sucked, sure. But *nobody* I have played with in the past 12 years has had any interest in sticking with Fighter past 4th level, most dropped out of it to Multi at 2nd. And Fighter 2 / Bbn 1 / Rgr 2 / PrC X / PrC Y / PRC N was a BAD MOFO who could charge and clear a room with a full attack. Was the Wizard capable of being more interesting? Sure, he had a TON of options at his disposal. But 3e Fighters only sucked if the player running them didn't know what he was doing (it happens, I'm sure).One of my earliest 3e characters soloed an Ogre (CR 3) at level 3... when the party caught up to him (he went off to scout <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />) he was at 3hp and was surrounded by dead goblins and the party got to seen him full attack the orge for the kill. IIRC, he was a Halfling barbarian 1 / fighter 1 / rogue 1. TWF + Rage + Cleave. I'd hit and kill a Goblin (my favored enemy) and cleave on the Ogre for free damage. Multiclassing in 3e was largely the domain of the "mundanes". The Casters didn't multi between themselves (except for noob players), and usually did something like Wiz 5 / Cool PrC 10 / Less Cool PrC 5 to 20. Where as the non-casters gained greatly for mixing it up.</blockquote>

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