Polymorph Any Object and Reflex Saves?

[Three_Haligonians]

Recently in game I found a new use for Polymorph Any Object. There were a group of badies running towards our group, and I used Polymorph Any Object to turn the earth under their feet to water. Unfortunately, we couldn't figure out what kind of a Reflex Save the badies should get . . .

The Polymorph Any Object spell has a target of "One creature, or one nonmagical object of up to 100 cu. ft/level". I mean, it wouldn't be too hard to figure out a reflex save for a bad guy who just had the five ft by ten ft. cube of earth he was standing on turn to water. But what is it was 14' x 14', with a depth of 10'? Should they get a Reflex Save? And should it be higher?

Thanks,

R from Three Haligonians

 

[Infiniti2000]

I'm not sure I would even give them a reflex save.

 

[Asmo]

Recently in game I found a new use for Polymorph Any Object. There were a group of badies running towards our group, and I used Polymorph Any Object to turn the earth under their feet to water. Unfortunately, we couldn't figure out what kind of a Reflex Save the badies should get . . .

I always thought that you used Transmute Rock to Mud for this kind of trick.
I would not allow Polymorph Any Object for this kind of action.

Asmo

 

[Octal40]

I tend to agree with Asmo. It's always been my interpretation that the "Object" in Polymorph Any Object was a seperate object. It may rest on or be held by something, but it is a seperate piece unto itself. In otherwords, I wouldn't allow you to polymorph a part of an object (part of the earth). The entire object must fit within the limits of the spell.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I tend to agree with Asmo. It's always been my interpretation that the "Object" in Polymorph Any Object was a seperate object. It may rest on or be held by something, but it is a seperate piece unto itself. In otherwords, I wouldn't allow you to polymorph a part of an object (part of the earth). The entire object must fit within the limits of the spell.

I agree, with one caveat:

"This spell can also be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph, polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud."

If you'd allow TRtM to work, you by extension allow PaO to do it, since PaO can duplicate TRtM.

Of course, it gives you mud, not water.

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

The entire object must fit within the limits of the spell.

Thus you must select the option for TRtM, since the ground is bigger than your effected area.

 

[PrinceZane]

Hmm... I kind of like this, but would like to take it a step further.

Caster 1 does the water works trick, then caster 2 (later in the round, after they fell) dispel magic so it turns back to normal leaving the baddies trapped in solid mud.

What would happen to them being stuck in firm ground? I'm sure constriction and all that. I guess depends if their head is above or below the ground level for suffocation and whatnot.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Caster 1 does the water works trick, then caster 2 (later in the round, after they fell) dispel magic so it turns back to normal leaving the baddies trapped in solid mud.

It's a very traditional combo.

-Hyp.

 

[IcyCool]

It's a very traditional combo.

-Hyp.

So what are the mechanics behind being trapped in solid earth?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Suffocation.

Pinned, and needing to make Strength checks to escape (as per Earthquake spell, but maybe with higher DCs).