D&D 4E Polymorph in 4E?

[pawsplay]

PHB2's Shapeshifter varient "takes care of" the ability in more than one way.

I pretty much despise that version.

 

[Wormwood]

PHB2's Shapeshifter varient "takes care of" the ability in more than one way.

I pretty much despise that version.

Cool.

All I know is it stopped a single player from dominating the game mechanically while taking three turns to everyone else's one.

Win-win for us.

 

[pawsplay]

Cool.

All I know is it stopped a single player from dominating the game mechanically while taking three turns to everyone else's one.

Win-win for us.

If I wanted to excise the druid, I would probably just announce that all characters who would otherwise be druids are clerics with the Animal and Plant domains.

 

[Intrope]

I expect that the new polymorph spells will be limited to classes of creatures (rather than one spell for all); that they'll more effectively restrict the power levels of the creatures you can transform into (or transform someone else into); and that they'll work rather like the Planar Exchange spells from Spell Compendium. Essentially, for a little while you'll *be* the creature (not a hybrid of yourself and the creature). As a result, most of the brokeness will disappear because you won't have any of your normal abilities in the morphed form (not even BAB!). As such, turning into other creatures will enhance your flexibility rather than your power.

 

[Jer]

That's not perfectly fine. Right off the bat, if they're a 9th level that allows you to alter reality, there ought to be a lower level spell that allows you to simply change shape within a range of forms.

I think there's an assumption built into this stance, and I've bolded it. I strongly doubt that Wish will still be a 9th level spell. With the stretching of the levels from 1-30, I suspect that IF Wish is maintained in the new rules (which, given what we're seeing so far, actually may be a big IF), it will no longer be a "9th level spell" and probably won't be accessible to casters until 25th level or so. And Wish is going to need some serious re-working if they're getting rid of XP costs for spells.

Anyway, back on target, I don't see why there necessarily should be a spell that allows you to change shape within a range of forms. I think a case can be made for a lot of different spells that each let you take a different form. A case can also be made for keeping the "baleful polymorph" spell that lets you turn an opponent into a variety of harmless forms (that doesn't affect game balance, really) which would keep your "Circe" concern from being a problem.

 

[pawsplay]

Anyway, back on target, I don't see why there necessarily should be a spell that allows you to change shape within a range of forms. I think a case can be made for a lot of different spells that each let you take a different form. A case can also be made for keeping the "baleful polymorph" spell that lets you turn an opponent into a variety of harmless forms (that doesn't affect game balance, really) which would keep your "Circe" concern from being a problem.

First of all, there is a really simple reason for that spell to exist. If it didn't exist, it would be necessary to create it. Which is to say, it's a concept for a spell that seems in line with other spell abilities and might be something that a wizard might find interesting in research.

Baleful polymorph is a problem. While it might not matter to "game balance," it does matter that a spell can turn someone into a variety of small, harmless forms but not larger animal forms. It just doesn't make sense.

Finally, Circe didn't turn everyone into toads. She turned them into a variety of beasts, most of them actually fairly dangerous.

 

[pawsplay]

I think there's an assumption built into this stance, and I've bolded it. I strongly doubt that Wish will still be a 9th level spell.

If there's no wish spell, then there is something 3.5 can do that 4e can't. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe that's a bad thing. But it definitely marks a philophical divide that some may not wish to cross, or that might persuade someone to play both editions in parallel. If 4e, too many times, says, "We can't do that, it's too complicated and/or unbalanced," then it loses something.

If I want that much balance, I'll play a point-based game. At a certain level, I expect D&D to deliver a particular kind of experience.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

First of all, there is a really simple reason for that spell to exist. If it didn't exist, it would be necessary to create it. Which is to say, it's a concept for a spell that seems in line with other spell abilities and might be something that a wizard might find interesting in research.

Baleful polymorph is a problem. While it might not matter to "game balance," it does matter that a spell can turn someone into a variety of small, harmless forms but not larger animal forms. It just doesn't make sense.

Finally, Circe didn't turn everyone into toads. She turned them into a variety of beasts, most of them actually fairly dangerous.

There isn't much against it. Just use the idea of the PHB II Shapechanging based Polymorph spell and also add that the creature don't keep their original intellect, but instead become beast-like or otherwise primitive.

I think that it is pretty doable. To keep the spell interesting, aside from some (limited) ability modifiers, characters should certainly also get some special attacks and qualities - you just limited it to the not-overpowered things...