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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7568181" data-attributes="member: 97077"><s>You've added the &quot;saved the day&quot; bit to this example. All it does is break the spell on the fighter, potentially having cost the fighter some amount of movement and action which might have been put to better use. And as you correctly note, any damage that spills over. The fighter's return to his normal form may or may not turn the tide of the battle - it depends on many things.</s> Edit: Withdrawn with apologies after [MENTION=6801328]Elfcrusher[/MENTION] 's clarification.I don't particularly buy into arguments about plausibility or realism in a game about storytelling in worlds of swords and sorcery, one that shares elements with childhood games of make-believe. We don't even need to go to that length to make the point. What I would want to know is this: Can you imagine an exciting, memorable situation in a fictional world where an Int-1 toad does something to get itself killed? Fictional toads aren't all infallible, right?Here you might just apply the carry over damage for a normal spear attack. The fighter pays a price in hit points, and some measure of movement and action for a turn. If that price isn't high enough for the DM's preference, he or she can choose a killer whale as the fighter's polymorphed form then. This will provide for greater difficulty for the PC and the party.What rule is the player in this example abusing exactly? He or she described what he or she wanted the fighter in toad form to do: Make a panicked leap away from its current position and into mortal danger due to an oncoming sword or, as I suggested in another take, the bard's swift-moving boots. Squish!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7568181, member: 97077"] [s]You've added the "saved the day" bit to this example. All it does is break the spell on the fighter, potentially having cost the fighter some amount of movement and action which might have been put to better use. And as you correctly note, any damage that spills over. The fighter's return to his normal form may or may not turn the tide of the battle - it depends on many things.[/s] Edit: Withdrawn with apologies after [MENTION=6801328]Elfcrusher[/MENTION] 's clarification. I don't particularly buy into arguments about plausibility or realism in a game about storytelling in worlds of swords and sorcery, one that shares elements with childhood games of make-believe. We don't even need to go to that length to make the point. What I would want to know is this: Can you imagine an exciting, memorable situation in a fictional world where an Int-1 toad does [I]something[/I] to get itself killed? Fictional toads aren't all infallible, right? Here you might just apply the carry over damage for a normal spear attack. The fighter pays a price in hit points, and some measure of movement and action for a turn. If that price isn't high enough for the DM's preference, he or she can choose a killer whale as the fighter's polymorphed form then. This will provide for greater difficulty for the PC and the party. What rule is the player in this example abusing exactly? He or she described what he or she wanted the fighter in toad form to do: Make a panicked leap away from its current position and into mortal danger due to an oncoming sword or, as I suggested in another take, the bard's swift-moving boots. Squish! [/QUOTE]

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