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Message: <blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7570319" data-attributes="member: 97077">I'll point out that you did not answer the question I posed so I'll ask again: Why does it matter that the player is choosing the action to "achieve a game effect?"In the context of the game, the DM can describe the environment, decide whether an action has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence of failure, assign a mechanic to resolve that uncertainty (if any), and narrate the result of the adventurers' actions. I submit that the section you are quoting refers to the mechanics being employed for any given adjudication that arises during game play. The DMG makes a distinction between the "rules of the game" and "table rules," which deal with how the game is played.The group as a whole can discuss and agree upon table rules (DMG, p. 235) which may include "Metagame Thinking" (which I address in my own table rules). The group may decide that the DM can say whether a player is allowed to make a given action declaration. But again this sits at the level of table rules, not the rules of the game itself. I have said and will continue to say that whatever pre-game agreements are made should be upheld by those who agree to them. The question under discussion is not whether table rules exist or should be followed once agreed to, but rather why some people take issue with how other people choose the actions they do, if those actions are otherwise reasonable in context.As has been shown, knowledge of the spell is not required for the toad to take the action. If you do declare that it is required, then to be consistent, no toad in your campaign world can ever accidentally die unless it has knowledge of spells. Is that true of toads in your setting? I imagine that is not the case, but then we are talking about storytelling in worlds of swords and sorcery that shares elements with childhood games of make-believe so anything's possible, right?On what basis are you making this assertion? Can you reference anything specific to back up your claim? I'm running an Eberron game right now so I'd like to know for my own purposes how common 4th-level spells are.Does your claim apply to homebrew worlds as well?</blockquote>

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