Polymorph other and Limited Wish help

Arcanus

First Post
Can you use Limited Wish to change the limtations on Polymorph Other?

Such as changing a non-outsider to an outsider?

Could this be possible to use the limited wish to change the description of the next polymorph other that you cast? Using two spells.

How about Wish? Could you use it to permantly change a persons Race/Type to something else? Like change a human into a tiefling?

There is a character that wants his human to be a native outsider
without having the level adjustment or the new abilities of the race. His goal is to be Angelic in appearance. Angel of Death or Holy Wrath type of flavor only. Just for fun and intimidation etc...
 

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1) If you want the full benefits of becoming Celestial, I would definitely impose the Level penalties for it no matter how you became one. I would allow a Wish spell to change your type to that, which would also impose the level penalties.

2) If you JUST want the change of type benefits and do not want the DarkVision, DR, SR, etc etc. then I would allow a Wish to grant the Celestial type without level penalties, but only if you did not get the Darkvision, DR, SR, elemental Resistance, Smite Evil etc.
 

Limited wish is a seventh level spell and polymorph other is a 4th level spell. Considering the limitations of limited wish - namely that you can mimic any other spell of equivalent level pertaining to your spell type list (arcane vs. divine - assuming no specialty), and the other limitations on casting spells that you would normally not be able to cast, I would allow the player to do this.

I reason it through like this:

1.) limited wish allows the character to cast ANY spell of 5th level or less.

2.) polymorph other is only a fourth level spell

3.) the only thing that is to be changed about the spell is that it now can be an outsider as well as a nonoutsider

4.) the casting of limited wish is not even being used to cast the modified version of polymorph other, but simply setting a condition for the next casting of polymorph other.

There are a few things to consider as well as reasons why this might not be balanced.

A.) I would not let this effect last beyond one round/level - this would not be able to be a dual contingency/spell modification spell - that would be too powerful. However, I might let wish do this.

B.) I am not familiar with the host of outsiders available - if this became a gross powergaming tactic, I would make sure to be fair and let all of the villians use the same tactics on the PC, as well as introduce roleplaying consequences of such actions.

C.) I already have a house rule that mandates the caster of any polymorph spell must be intimately familiar with any creature the polymorph spell will mimic. This means 1.) a one time successful role of the appropriate knowledge check (nature for normal animals, arcana for magical beasts, planes for outsiders, etc.) with the DC set to the result of an operator applied to a combination of the CR and HD, 2.) having seen the creature at least once in person, 3.) when polymorph is used it mimics that exact creature, not the average one of the species (this could mean an adjustment of CR and HD affecting both the spell and the DC of the knowledge check). btw - this has many ramifications for roleplaying - especially if the original finds out about the polymorphing (aka disguising). Also, I typically have ramifications if the caster has not gotten permission from the creature to polymorph into it. This house rule tends to temper my judgement on the spell as I have not really decreased its power, simply the ease with which that power is attainable.

D.) IDHMBWM and forget the description of polymorph any object. If that version of the spell does allow for polymorphing into an outsider than this application of limited wish would be overpowered.
 

Okay the only thing the character needs out of this is the body of an outsider. No special benefits from the type at all.

I was wondering if you could do this with polymorph other.
That particular spell says that you could change a person into an outsider only if that person was also the same type (being an outsider anyway), so the outsider could be polymorphed into a Night Hag to a Modron to a succubus or whatever.

SO limited wish isn't a powerful enough spell that could be used to enhance a 4th level polymorph other spell? It couldn't for instance change the restriction that you have to be the creature type to begin with and make it so a human could be polymorphed into an Aasimar or Tiefling?

If I made an Improved Polymorph Other Spell what level would it need to be to get the type restrictions removed? All other descriptions stay the same except that you could change a elf into a ghoul or a halfling into a mephit or a dwarf into a modron?

They wouldn't get any special benefits from the new type just whatever polymorph other says that you get.
 


What I was hoping for was to be able to look like a "angel" and fly like one too.

This would look awesome being able to intimidate and cause panic amongest evil villians.

Swooping down with my persistent Blazing Shield spell on and a Mace of Odo in my other hand.
I probally could do this with Alter Self though.
 

Yeah, the problem lies completely with the being an outsider part (because that opens up a lot of new possibilities, you could otherwise not achieve).

Looking like one and having wings is no problem at all!
As you said, Alter Self can achieve that!

Bye
Thanee
 

What I was hoping for was to be able to look like a "angel" and fly like one too.

See if your DM has Avariel elves in his campaign. They are winged elves who worship Aerdrie Ehlonna (sp? - think that is where the Quiver of Elhonna gets its name) the elven goddess of the Air/Birds/etc. That would solve your problem no question.

Also, see about celestial armor's benefits. Or change the look of a cloak of the bat so that instead of bat wings it is feathers (cloak of the eagle?). Just a minor game change in my book.

On a side note, my DM allowed a Limited Wish to duplicate a Polymorph Other spell to allow my character (Tiny sized) to become Medium sized for the Permanent duration of Poly Self. Does that sound right to you guys, meaning that it is "any power within the lines of a Limited Wish to grant"?

Thx.
 

loviatarfrostbringer said:
(sp? - think that is where the Quiver of Elhonna gets its name)

Actually I think it is Elhonna (see PHB), where the Quiver gets its name from. ;)

On a side note, my DM allowed a Limited Wish to duplicate a Polymorph Other spell to allow my character (Tiny sized) to become Medium sized for the Permanent duration of Poly Self. Does that sound right to you guys, meaning that it is "any power within the lines of a Limited Wish to grant"?

Tiny sized? :)

Well, yeah, I think becoming medium size (but not more) is ok.
However, I'd not allow to have Polymorph work off the new size (instead of the original size) then.

Bye
Thanee
 

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