Poor Dex Bonus helps AC?

[TracerBullet42]

There is a character in my group who has a Dex of 7 resulting in a -3 to his armor class. My question is, if he is caught flat-footed, losing his Dex bonus, should his armor class go up by 3? I could really see it working either way. What do you all think?

 

[Xeoble]

He's so clumsy that when he's caught flat-footed, he falls in the wrong direction all the time! (or right direction depending on who's perspective you're coming from)

I think having a -3 is a "dex penalty" not a "dex bonus" so his AC would stay at the -3.

 

[DreamChaser]

no. you only lose the bonuses not the penalties.

his character has a dexterity modifier of -3 or in other words a -3 penalty to dex related actions.

if he had a score of 16, the would have a dex modfier of +3 or a +3 bonus to dex related actions.

there are no negative bonuses

DC

 

[Hypersmurf]

Under the description of Dexterity at the start of the PHB (p4? IDHTBIFOM), it states that one loses one's Dex modifier when flat-footed.

However, every other time the subject comes up in the Core Rules, it says Dex bonus is lost.

It is generally considered that p4 is erroneous, and only a Dex bonus (ie, a positive modifier) is lost when a character is flat-footed; a Dex penalty (ie, a negative modifer) is retained.

Note that even though he retains his Dex penalty, he is still vulnerable to Sneak Attacks, because had he a Dex bonus, he would have lost it.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

When we first started with 3E, though, I DMd a Paladin with an 8 Dex. "Go on, catch me flat-footed," he'd say. "I dare ya."

This was before we realised that p4 was wrong.

BTW - a Dex of 7 is a -2 modifier, not a -3.

-Hyp.

 

[TracerBullet42]

Thanks for the clarification...I figured that would be the case, but thought it'd be a good idea to see what some others thought. And, oh yeah....a 7 is a -2....I had his stat confused with my 5...which is a -3...lot of minuses there. Thanks!

 

[Ranger REG]

Let's recap people:

A bonus is a postive modifier, usually prefixed with a plus ("+") sign.

A penalty is a negative modifier, usually prefixed with a minus ("-") sign.

If you are denied the use of a bonus, the penalty still apply.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you are denied the use of a bonus, the penalty still apply.

True. That doesn't change the fact that in one place in the PHB, it says that your Dex modifier to AC does not apply while flat-footed.

The numerous places where it states that Dex bonus is denied suggests that the lone entry is erroneous... but it's still there.

-Hyp.

 

[JChung2003]

PHB, p. 8: "You apply your character's Dexterity modifier to: Armor Class (AC), provided the character can react to the attack."

It doesn't state the negative (you don't apply your Dexterity modifier if you can't react to the attack). It only states the positive (you apply your Dexterity modifier if you can react to the attack).

 

[Hypersmurf]

When do you apply the modifier? When you can react to the attack.

It's not worth getting into, because the other sources make it clear what's intended

-Hyp.